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جمعرات 20 مارچ 2003Thursday, March 20, 2003

Forced Marriage in Islam: Post #2

Previous Posts of this series: Cousin Marriage and Forced Marriage in Pakistan.

I did some research for this post. Actually, I asked my sister to tell me what Abdur Rahman Al-Jazairi had to say about the topic in his book “Kitab-ul-Fiqh alal-Madhahib al-Arba’a” (Book of fiqh according to the four schools [mentioned in this post] of jurispendence). So thanks to her as she translated the Urdu text (the original book is in Arabic but my parents have the Urdu translation for the benefit of my Dad and us since my Mom’s mother tongue is Arabic) over Yahoo Messenger.

We’ll start with our friend the modernist Moiz Amjad.

As far as the teachings and recommendations of the Shari`ah regarding a Nikah (marriage) ceremony are concerned, the basic necessary ingredients that should be present in a marriage, according to the recommendations of Islam, are:

  1. Marriage should primarily be a contract that materializes from the expression of the intent of a man and a woman to live the rest of their lives as husband and wife. This contract should be based on the free consent of the man and the woman. In other words, it should not be a temporary contract (i.e. a marital contract for a specified period of time) or one, which is based on coercion and force.
  2. There should be a general declaration of the marriage in the society. Islam does not recognize a secret marital contract. The declaration of the marriage may take any shape or form that is generally adopted in the society. For instance, inviting friends and relatives to the marriage ceremony is an acceptable method of this declaration. Holding two or more persons as witnesses to the marriage contract is also a legislated method for such declaration adopted in various societies and cultures.
  3. The man should give a mutually agreed upon amount as what the Islamic Shari`ah (law) terms as ‘Mehr’ to the woman. The factors that may be considered in the settlement of the amount of ‘Mehr’ include the financial position and the social status of the man and the woman. A woman may refuse marriage merely on the basis of the fact that she considers the amount of ‘Mehr’ to be inadequate. ‘Mehr’ is a basically a token from the man, given to his wife, to express and symbolize the fact that he is willing and capable to fulfill the financial responsibility of the family that would be formed subsequent to the marriage contract. It may be mentioned here that although Islam does not prohibit a woman to take up a financial activity of her choice, yet puts the ultimate responsibility of providing for the family on the husband.

Now that seems simple and reasonable. But we don’t call him modernist for nothing. Let’s now hear from Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid.

There are three pillars or conditions for the marriage contract in Islam:

  1. Both parties should be free of any obstacles that might prevent the marriage from being valid, such as their being mahrams of one another (i.e., close relatives who are permanently forbidden to marry), whether this relationship is through blood ties or through breastfeeding (radaa’) etc., or where the man is a kaafir (non-Muslim) and the woman is a Muslim, and so on.
  2. There should be an offer or proposal (eejaab) from the wali or the person who is acting in his place, who should say to the groom “I marry so-and-so to you” or similar words.
  3. There should be an expression of acceptance (qabool) on the part of the groom or whoever is acting in his place, who should say, “I accept,” or similar words.

The conditions of a proper nikaah (marriage contract) are as follows:

  1. Both the bride and groom should be clearly identified, whether by stating their names or describing them, etc.
  2. Both the bride and groom should be pleased with one another, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No previously-married woman (widow or divorcee) may be married until she has been asked about her wishes (i.e., she should state clearly her wishes), and no virgin should be married until her permission has been asked (i.e., until she has agreed either in words or by remaining silent).” They asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, how is her permission given (because she will feel very shy)?” He said: “By her silence.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4741)
  3. The one who does the contract on the woman’s behalf should be her wali, as Allaah addressed the walis with regard to marriage (interpretation of the meaning): “And marry those among you who are single…” [al-Noor 24:32] and because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Any woman who marries without the permission of her wali, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid.” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1021 and others; it is a saheeh hadeeth)
  4. The marriage contract must be witnessed, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no marriage contract except with a wali and two witnesses.” (Reported by al-Tabaraani; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 7558)

It is also important that the marriage be announced, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Announce marriages.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad; classed as hasan in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 1027).

Now who is this wali and why is his consent needed?

The conditions of the wali are as follows:

  1. He should be of sound mind.
  2. He should be an adult.
  3. He should be free (not a slave).
  4. He should be of the same religion as the bride. A kaafir cannot be the wali of a Muslim, male or female, and a Muslim cannot be the wali of a kaafir, male or female, but a kaafir can be the wali of a kaafir woman for marriage purposes, even if they are of different religions. An apostate (one who has left Islam) cannot be a wali for anybody.
  5. He should be of good character (`adaalah — includes piety, attitude, conduct, etc.), as opposed to being corrupt. This is a condition laid down by some scholars, although some of them regard the outward appearance of good character as being sufficient, and some say that it is enough if he is judged as being able to pay proper attention to the interests of the woman for whom he is acting as wali in the matter of her marriage.
  6. He should be male, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No woman may conduct the marriage contract of another woman, and no woman can conduct the marriage contract on behalf of her own self, because the zaaniyah (fornicatress, adulteress) is the one who arranges things on her own behalf.” (Reported by Ibn Maajah, 1782; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 7298)
  7. He should be wise and mature (rushd), which means being able to understand matters of compatibility and the interests of marriage.

The fuqahaa’ put possible walis in a certain order, and a wali who is more closely-related should not be ignored unless there is no such person or the relatives do not meet the specified conditions. A woman’s wali is her father, then whoever her father may have appointed before his death, then her paternal grandfather or great-grandfather, then her son, then her grandfathers sons or grandsons, then her brother through both parents (full brother), then her brother through her father, then the sons of her brother through both parents, then the sons of her brother through her father, then her uncle (her father’s brother through both parents), then her father’s brother through the father, then the sons of her father’s brother though both parents, then the sons of her father’s brother through the father, then whoever is more closely related, and so on — as is the case with inheritance. The Muslim leader (or his deputy, such as a qaadi or judge) is the wali for any woman who does not have a wali of her own.

So it seems that the bride and the groom have to consent to their marriage. However, the hadith cited by the Sheikh equating silence with consent is misused a LOT in practice. There might be cases where the bride clearly refuses to marry but in most of the the forced marriages she only has to stay quiet. That is a low hurdle and should be unacceptable. There are maulvis/Nikah registrars in Pakistan that insist on a clear verbal reply from the bride. Obviously those are not called for the Nikah ceremony by people bent on forcibly marrying someone.

We will return to the wali issue later. Let’s first hear Moiz Amjad’s clear reply to a woman who had been forcibly married by her parents.

No one, not even the parents, have a right to force marriage upon any boy or a girl. Without the free consent of the woman (as well as the man), a marriage contract would be deemed void. Forcing marriage upon a woman is clearly against the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh).

According to a narrative reported by Abu Dawood, once when a case of forced marriage was reported to the Prophet (pbuh), he allowed the woman (who was forced into marriage) the option to revoke the marriage, if she desired to do so (Abu Dawood, Kitaab al-Nikah, Narrative No. 1797).

The free choice of the woman is a necessary condition for a valid Nikah. In view of this fact, if it is found out that a woman has been coerced into a Nikah, then such a Nikah can be revoked or even invalidated by the competent legal authority.

Nevertheless, considering the fact that you have signed the Nikah contract, you will now have to seek legal help to invalidate the Nikah, if your parents do not accept your basic moral and legal right.

Because you have been forced into marriage, therefore, your apparent husband does not have any moral or legal rights over you, till the time that you give him such rights, with the willingness of your heart. Under the stated circumstances, I do not consider it sinful on your part to refuse talking to him or to seek legal help in revoking the said marriage contract.

Back to the matter of the wali. There is this reply to a question about court marriage on Moiz Amjad’s site:

The Islamic Shari`ah does not prohibit any two adult persons from entering the bonds of marriage. However there are certain conditions, which need to be met. First, the consent of both the male and the female partner is necessary. Second, the Nikah should be declared in the society and must not be kept hidden. The Qur’an guides us that the contract of Nikah should be undertaken in the manner that is recognized, supported and followed by the honorable and noble people of a society. Social norms usually demand a consent and backing from the parents. However, if a parent does not give the right of entering the bond of marriage to their children and shows excessive unfounded resistance then the matter may be dealt as the situation demands. One may, under such circumstances, turn to the court and make the marriage contract there. Nevertheless, the best course would be to do every effort to get the parents’ consent so that the step of going to the court may be avoided.

If wali’s consent is not required, then what is the deal? Here’s how Shehzad Saleem explains it on Moiz’s site (Moiz does not necessarily endorse this opinion).

Islam on the other hand, as mentioned earlier, has always insisted that the institution of family is the basic building block of the society and it is in the interest of humanity to adhere to a family oriented society. Consequently, it has given a number of directives for the protection and preservation of the family.

[…]Among these directives also comes the Prophet’s hadith the interpretation of which has become the centre of controversy these days:

A Nikah does not solemnise unless it takes place through the guardian and if someone does not have a guardian the ruler of the Muslims is his guardian. (Tirmizii Kitaab-un- nikah)

This hadith is actually a corollary of the social directives of Islam pertaining to the institution of family and is based on great wisdom. Since the preservation and protection of the family set up is of paramount importance to Islam, it is but natural that each marriage take place through the consent of the parents who are the foremost guardians. It is obvious that a marriage solemnised through the consent of the parents shields and shelters the newly formed family. For reasons stated earlier, it is essential that the newly formed family be part of another larger family.

However, as is evident from the hadith also, there can always be an exception to this general principle. If a man and a woman feel that the rejection on the part of the parents has no sound reasoning behind it or that the parents, owing to some reason, are not appreciating the grounds of this union, they have all the right to take this matter to the courts of justice. It is now up to the court to analyse and evaluate the whole affair. If it is satisfied with the stance of the man and woman, it can give a green signal to them. In this case, as is apparent from the hadith, the state shall be considered the guardian of the couple. On the other hand, if the court is of the view that the stand of the parents is valid, it can stop the concerned parties from engaging in wedlock. Similarly, if a case is brought before the judicial forums in which the marriage has taken place without the consent of the parents, it is up to the court to decide the fate of such a liaison. If it is not satisfied with the grounds of this union, it can order for their separation and if it is satisfied, it can endorse the decision taken by the couple.

This is the law as far as this issue is concerned. However, it is evident that laws mostly cater for extreme situations as their nature is preventive not reformatory. In other words, they prevent the spreading of anarchy and disorder in a society but have no role in positively building a society on a certain ideology. It is the utmost goal of Islam to build a society in which traditions are so deeply rooted that various affairs are settled and resolved within the social structure without taking them to the courts. Family affairs, if taken to the courts, become the talk of the town and severely damage the standing and reputation of the parties involved. Consequently, it is in the interest of the parties involved to settle their differences mutually by giving due importance to the ultimate goal of protecting the institution of family.

The society which, we believe, Islam wants to build is one in which the relationship between parents and children is based on such norms and values as protect the family set up. In such a society, if an individual has to select a life partner for himself or herself, he or she must make the utmost effort to convince the parents. In differences of opinion it seems proper that the individual accommodate the opinion of the parents as far as possible, and only in extraordinary circumstances should he persist in his decision. An individual no doubt has total freedom in decision making in this regard but he should give top priority to the protection of the institution of family. This freedom is so absolute that Islam disapproves of parents who forcibly marry their sons and daughters and makes it clear that it is the concerned man and woman who have the final say in this regard:

A girl once came to ‘A’isha and said ‘My father has married me to his nephew to alleviate his poverty through me. I dislike him.’ ‘A’isha replied ‘Wait here until the Prophet comes.’ The Prophet arrived shortly and she informed him of the matter. At this, the Prophet sent for her father. When he arrived the Prophet gave the girl the choice to do whatever she liked. She said: ‘I accept my father’s decision. I only wanted to know whether a girl has authority in this regard or not’. (Nisaii, Kitab-un-nikaah)

If in a society envisaged by Islam it is important that an individual give due regard to the opinion of the parents in marriage, it is even more important that the parents be extra cautious in this matter since they hold moral authority over their children. Misuse and abuse of such authority can produce grave consequences. Parents must give deep consideration to the inclinations and tendencies of their children in deciding their future in an affair as delicate as marriage. They should understand that once their children become mentally mature they must not impose their ideas on them.

The Sheikh is more adamant about obeying parents, though he thinks there is some leeway.

Consent is essential in the case of the husband, and also in the case of the wife. The parents have no right to force their son or their daughter to marry someone they do not want.

But if the person whom the parents have chosen is righteous, then the child, whether male or female, should obey the parents in that, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “If there comes to you one with whose religious commitment and character you are pleased, then marry (your daughter) to him.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1084; Ibn Maajah, 1967. Classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 865).

But if obeying them will lead to divorce later on, then the child does not have to obey them in that, because consent is the foundation of the marital relationship, and this consent must be in accordance with sharee’ah, which is approval of the one who is religiously committed and of good character.

A child is not considered to be disobedient or sinful if he does not obey his parents in this regard.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: The parents do not have the right to force their child to marry someone whom he does not want, and if he refuses he is not being disobedient towards them, as is the case when he does not eat what he does not want.

Now let us see the Sheikh present some evidence for his case:

It is not permissible for a man to marry a woman without the permission of her guardian, whether she is a virgin or previously-married. This is the view of the majority of scholars, including al-Shaafa’i, Maalik and Ahmad. This is based on evidence which includes the following:

The verses in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands” [al-Baqarah 2:232]

“And do not marry Al-Mushrikaat (idolatresses) till they believe (worship Allaah Alone)” [al-Baqarah 2:221]

“and marry those among you who are single” [al-Noor 24:32]

The point here is that these verses clearly stipulate that there be a guardian in marriage, because Allaah is addressing the guardian with regard to the marriage of the woman under his care. If the matter were up to her and not him, there would be no need to address him.

It is indicative of Imam al-Bukhaari’s deep understanding of issues of sharee’ah that he quoted these verses in a chapter which he entitled “Baab man qaala la nikaaha illa bi wali (Chapter on those who say that there is no marriage without a guardian).”

It was narrated that Abu Moosa said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “There is no marriage without a guardian.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1101; Abu Dawood, 2085; Ibn Maajah, 1881. Classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1/318)

It was narrated that “Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: Any woman who gets married without the permission of her guardian, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid. But if the marriage is consummated then the mahr is hers because she has allowed him to be intimate with her. If they dispute, then the ruler is the guardian of the one who has no guardian.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1102; Abu Dawood, 2083; Ibn Maajah, 1879. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 1840)

Secondly: If her guardian prevents her from marrying the person she wants for no valid reason according to sharee’ah, then the role of guardian passes to the next closest relative, so it passes from the father to the grandfather, for example.

Thirdly: if all of her guardians prevent her from getting married for no valid reason according to sharee’ah, then the ruler is her guardian, because of the hadeeth quoted above (“…If they dispute, then the ruler is the guardian of the one who has no guardian”)

Fourthly: if there is no guardian and no ruler, then her marriage is to be arranged by a man who has authority in the place where she is, such as the head of a village, or the governor of a province, and so on. If there is no such person, then she should appoint a trustworthy Muslim man to arrange her marriage.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: If there is no relative who can act as her guardian, then the position of guardian passes to the one who is most fit among those who have any kind of authority in matters other than marriage, such as the head of a village, the leader of a caravan, and so on.

Ibn Qudaamah said: If a woman does not have a guardian and there is no ruler, then there was narrated from Ahmad that which indicates that her marriage should be arranged by a man of sound character, with her permission.

Shaykh `Umar al-Ashqar said: If there is no ruler of the Muslims, or if the woman is in a place where the Muslims have no ruler, and she has no guardian at all, like the Muslims in America and elsewhere, if there are Islamic institutions in that country that take care of the Muslims’ affairs, then they should arrange her marriage. The same applies if the Muslims have a leader who is in charge or someone who is responsible for their affairs.

So can a woman decide who her wali should be? According to the Sheikh, it depends on whether her closer relative is acting wrongfully or not.

If she wants to marry someone of equal standing, and the wali wants to marry her to a different person of equal standing, and he refuses to marry her to the person whom she wants to marry, then he is preventing her from marrying [wrongfully – ed]. But if she wants to marry someone of different standing, then he has the right to stop her, and in this case he is not preventing her from marrying in the wrongful sense.

[…]If the wali refused to let a woman marry a man whose religious commitment and character are good, then guardianship passes to the next closest male relative on the father’s side, then the next closest and so on. If they refuse to arrange her marriage, as usually happens, then guardianship passes to the qaadi, and the qaadi should arrange the woman’s marriage. If the matter is referred to him and he knows that her guardians have refused to arrange her marriage, then he should do that, because he is the wali in cases where there is no specific wali.

The fuqaha’ (may Allaah have mercy on them) stated that if the wali repeatedly refuses marriage proposals from suitable men, then he is a faasiq (evildoer) and is no longer regarded as being of good character or as being a wali, rather according to the best known view of the madhhab of Imam Ahmad, he also forfeits the right to lead prayers and it is not valid to offer any congregational prayer behind him. This is a serious matter.

Some people, as we have referred to above, refuse offers of marriage from compatible men, but the girl may feel too shy to come to the qaadi to ask for her marriage to be arranged. This is something that does happen. But she should weigh the pros and cons, and decide which has the more damaging consequences, staying without a husband and letting her wali control her life according to his mood or his whims and desires, and when she grows old and no longer wants to get married, then he will arrange her marriage, or going to the qaadi and asking him to arrange her marriage because that is her right according to sharee’ah.

Undoubtedly the second alternative is preferable, which is that she should go to the qaadi and ask him to arrange her marriage, because she has the right to that.

The four schools of jurispendence differ in the details on this aspect. The Hanafis (whose followers are the most numerous) are the most lenient. According to Kitab-ul-Fiqh, an adult woman has the right to marry of her own choice. The wali (guardian) has no say whatsoever if the bride and groom are of equivalent social standing. However, if they are not of equal standing, then the guardian has a very powerful veto. He can not only refuse to marry the woman, he can also get the marriage invalidated within a year of the wedding or before the couple have a child. The other schools (Shaafi, Hanbali and Maliki) are more strict. Some of them allow a veto to the wali in all cases and some allow it only if it is the woman’s first marriage. That means that they consider widows and divorcees to be independent women.

The issues about the consent of the wali have raised their ugly head in Pakistani courts a number of times with different judgements. Here is a description of two such cases:

On 25 September 1996, a single bench of the Lahore High Court consisting of Justice Abdul Hafeez Cheema ruled that a Muslim woman may not marry without the consent of her wali or male guardian - usually the father or grandfather - and that any marriage contracted by her without this consent is void. The judgment implies that men are free to marry or re-marry without anybodys consent except that of the prospective wife while no woman, whatever her age, may validly contract her own marriage without the consent of the wali or act as the wali for her daughter.

The judgment came in cases brought by two women, Ayesha Ijaz of Toba Tek Singh and Shabina Zafar of Faisalabad who had married men of their choice. Their fathers registered cases against the two women alleging that since they had married without their walis consent, the marriages were void and they had committed the offence of zina. The two women then moved the court to have the cases quashed, arguing that they were sui juris (i.e. had the legal capacity to act independently after attaining majority) and competent in law to get married with partners of their choice. The judgement upheld that the couples be prosecuted for zina as the marriages had been consummated. The Supreme Court on 23 October 1996 suspended the judgement following the admission of the appeal; the court returned the women to their fathers custody but restrained the fathers from arranging their daughters marriage to anyone else before a Supreme Court decision. The appeal is still pending.

However, in another similar case, a three-member bench of the Lahore High Court on 10 March 1997 split 2-1 in a majority decision that the consent of the wali is not required for a marriage to be valid. Saima Wahids marriage to Arshad Ahmad had been challenged by her father whose consent she had not obtained when she contracted her marriage. She spent 11 months in a womens shelter for fear that her father might kill her.

The cases have generated extensive debate in Pakistan. Judge Cheemas ruling conflicts with previous judgments which had viewed Muslim marriage as a civil contract between men and women who were free to enter the contract if they had attained puberty and were sui juris and had the marriage performed in the presence of witnesses and on payment of dower by the groom to the bride. Women activists have argued that marriages of Pakistani Muslims are governed by the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance of 1961 which in section 5 dealing with the registration of marriages does not require the consent of the wali. The standard marriage contract, the nikahnama, prepared and printed under the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance, requires only the signature of the bride and groom and of two witnesses and makes no provision for the signature or recording the consent of the wali.

You should also remember that under Pakistan’s laws, a woman convicted of zina (fornication) receives severe punishment.

So what is my opinion of this? Honestly, the Hanafi position does not look lenient at all to me. It all seems so ridiculous. A woman has the full right to marry anyone she chooses to, just like a man does. Obeying and respecting parents is a good idea but marriage is quite frankly a personal matter and parents should not interfere.

Next: Having looked at cousin marriages and forced marriages, I’ll discuss an interesting intersection of the two, arranged marriages.

Posted by Zack at March 20, 2003 6:01 PM in Islam and Other Religions

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Comments

to be fair to muslims-their problem is that so many of these laws/traditions were crystallized in the 7th-9th centuries when this was standard procedure in the “civilized” world.

Posted by: razib (110 comments) at March 20, 2003 8:35 PM

Thanks for providing such a detailed summary on this issue.

To be honest, I think people will find a way to ignore rules that they don’t like, even when there is a clear statement about the matter so even if the Islamic rules were much stronger in demanding that the woman’s consent be given, we would still see a lot of this.

Pakistan is primarily Hanafi, isn’t it? Do people mostly take advantage of the “equal social status” part to require the use of a wali? Otherwise, one would think that a Hanafi country was much more liberal than other countries.

Posted by: Al-Muhajabah (262 comments) at March 20, 2003 11:29 PM

i read once that the 20% shia in pakistan comes from many families converting because it is even less strict than the hanafi….



the turkish countries and south asia are hanafi-which explains why the

are the most numerous and liberal-they had to deal with non-muslim populations. but i believe southeast asian is mostly shafi….

Posted by: razib (110 comments) at March 21, 2003 1:21 AM

To be honest, I think people will find a way to ignore rules that they don’t like, even when there is a clear statement about the matter so even if the Islamic rules were much stronger in demanding that the woman’s consent be given, we would still see a lot of this.



True. People usually do things for lots of reasons. Religion, culture, tradition, ego, etc. are some of the reasons. I am exploring religion in this post. I do not claim that if not for Islam, these problems won’t exist. After all, forced marriages happen in Pakistan despite the fact that they are forbidden in Islam. However, as a Muslim, I like to look at Islamic jurispendence and come to my own conclusions.



Pakistan is primarily Hanafi, isn’t it?



Yes.



Do people mostly take advantage of the “equal social status” part to require the use of a wali?



I am not exactly sure, but a number of problems related to a woman marrying a man of her choice against her parents’ wishes seem to be where the man is not considered to be their equal.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at March 21, 2003 3:53 PM

i read once that the 20% shia in pakistan comes from many families converting because it is even less strict than the hanafi….



I have an interesting anecdote that’s somewhat related. Pakistan’s banks charge Zakat on your balance on the 1st of Ramazan every year. However, Shiites are allowed an exception. So if you submit an affidavit to the bank that you are shiite, they won’t deduct zakat from your account. The result is that a lot of people submit these affidavits, including an uncle of mine. According to some, if you looked at bank records, Pakistan would be majority Shiite.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at March 21, 2003 3:56 PM

Thanks for your answers, Zack. I don’t know a lot about Pakistani society, and I appreciate your taking the time to explain it for me. I guess the part that interests me the most is how Pakistani traditions and customs compare to Islam, and why they diverge when they do.



LOL at the story about the banks. People are the same everywhere when it comes to money.

Posted by: Al-Muhajabah (262 comments) at March 21, 2003 4:37 PM

Out of care for my compatriot Zack I must warn that calling the hardwork and ijtihad of Imam Abu Hanifah is ridiculous is not very wise. Allah’s has warned in a hadith-e-qudsi that those who are against His friends (wali-ullahs) wage a war against Allah (like those who accept riba). (And who will win that war?) But then again why would he care about such a hadith who didn’t care about the 4 great imams.

Posted by: A Musalman from Pakistan (1 comments) at March 26, 2003 10:44 PM

Bro Zack….How did you come to the following conclusion:

>>>>So what is my opinion of this? Honestly, the Hanafi position does not look lenient at all to me. It all seems so ridiculous.

How does it not look lenient and how does it look ridiculous? You just pulled those two statements out of the blue!!! Actually the Hanafees are more lenient than the other imams on this issue. And what does leniency have to do with following Islam? Do you follow what is easy and leave out what is hard? It is about time we entered into Islam fully!!

Peace

Posted by: rayhan (7 comments) at September 24, 2003 12:36 AM

Bro Zack….How did you come to the following conclusion:

>>>>So what is my opinion of this? Honestly, the Hanafi position does not look lenient at all to me. It all seems so ridiculous.

How does it not look lenient and how does it look ridiculous? You just pulled those two statements out of the blue!!! Actually the Hanafees are more lenient than the other imams on this issue. And what does leniency have to do with following Islam? Do you follow what is easy and leave out what is hard? It is about time we entered into Islam fully!!

Peace

Posted by: rayhan (7 comments) at September 24, 2003 12:37 AM

A Musalman from Pakistan: I don’t think your warning has any basis in Islam. You are misinterpreting that Hadith.

Rayhan: The Hanafi position is definitely lenient as compared to the other 3 schools but in my opinion by not giving an adult woman the right to choose her husband without the requirement of a guardian, the Hanafi scholars have erred.

I should have probably used some other wording instead of “lenient” though.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at September 24, 2003 4:00 AM

>>>>>but in my opinion by not giving an adult woman the right to choose her husband without the requirement of a guardian, the Hanafi scholars have erred.

with all due respect you….but you got it wrong bro….the following hanafi position is taken from www.ask-imam.com :

According to Shari’ah, an adult (boy and girl) reserve the right to marry a partner of his/her choice. However, due to marriage being a major step in one’s life, it is advisable to make Mashwara (consult) with your seniors as well as make Istikhaara (seek divine guidance). Somewhere on this site, search ‘Istikhaara’ (without quotes).

You should also consider the advise of your parents as their advise is
motivated by their love and concern for you.

And Allah Ta’la Knows Best.

Was salaam

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.
_____________________________

so can you please tell me how the Hanafi scholars have erred? you are saying the same thing what they have said since ever…..and the reason why the guardian can get it annuled later is because of their incomptibality…..because of their social differences……if she is from a rich family and he is poor…then it will be very hard for him to take care of her because the male is usually the one who brings in the cash….now that ruling could change if after marriage she has enough money to resonably fulfill her demands….otherwise they will not be compatible…….

whatever….
Peace

Posted by: Rayhan (7 comments) at September 24, 2003 11:50 PM

>>>>>but in my opinion by not giving an adult woman the right to choose her husband without the requirement of a guardian, the Hanafi scholars have erred.

with all due respect to you….but you got it wrong bro….the following hanafi position is taken from www.ask-imam.com :

According to Shari’ah, an adult (boy and girl) reserve the right to marry a partner of his/her choice. However, due to marriage being a major step in one’s life, it is advisable to make Mashwara (consult) with your seniors as well as make Istikhaara (seek divine guidance). Somewhere on this site, search ‘Istikhaara’ (without quotes).

You should also consider the advise of your parents as their advise is
motivated by their love and concern for you.

And Allah Ta’la Knows Best.

Was salaam

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.
_____________________________

so can you please tell me how the Hanafi scholars have erred? you are saying the same thing what they have said since ever…..and the reason why the guardian can get it annuled later is because of their incomptibality…..because of their social differences……if she is from a rich family and he is poor…then it will be very hard for him to take care of her because the male is usually the one who brings in the cash….now that ruling could change if after marriage she has enough money to resonably fulfill her demands….otherwise they will not be compatible…….

whatever….
Peace

Posted by: Rayhan (7 comments) at September 24, 2003 11:51 PM

pardon my double posts :)

Posted by: Rayhan (7 comments) at September 24, 2003 11:53 PM

Rayhan: Your quote from the fatwa site is not accurate Hanafi interpretation. I try not to rely on the web for such things. I looked up the issue of marriage of a previously unmarried woman in “Kitabul Fiqh ala Madhahib Arba’a” by Al-Jazairi. According to the Hanfi position, in addition to the consent of the woman, her “wali” must approve the marriage. This “wali” requirement is what I disagree with.

I disagree even more with the annulment power that Hanafis give to the guardian of a woman in case the woman and her husband are not of same social standing. While I think that generally assortative mating is fine, I don’t believe there should be sanctions against it. This rule goes against the egalitarian principles of Islam and enforces a stratified society where a poor man cannot marry a rich woman. That is WRONG. And in case the woman is not happy with her poor husband who can’t provide for her, well she could seek a divorce herself. Why does her guardian need the right to annul the marriage?

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at September 25, 2003 12:57 AM

>>>>Rayhan: Your quote from the fatwa site is not accurate Hanafi interpretation. I try not to rely on the web for such things.

The www.ask-imam.com site is one of the most authentic hanafi sites on the web.

>>>>>I looked up the issue of marriage of a previously unmarried woman in “Kitabul Fiqh ala Madhahib Arba`a” by Al-Jazairi.

The above mentioned book is good, but it has mistakes in there. Plus the author is not Hanafi. I don’t really want to bore you with the references, but if you ask, I can provide you with references from Hanafi books about what I wrote.

>>>According to the Hanfi position, in addition to the consent of the woman, her ‘wali’ must approve the marriage.

Sorry bro…..You understood it wrong. Her Wali has the right to consent to the marriage ONLY when she gets married to someone who is NOT a suitable match for her. And if she marries herself to someone who is a suitable match (kuf’) for her, then there is agreement in the school that the marriage is valid and binding.

>>>This “wali” requirement is what I disagree with.

The Prophet Sallallahu alaihe wasallam says, “Whichever woman marries herself without her guardians (Wali’s) permission then her marriage is void. Her marriage is void. Her marriage is batil.” (AHMAD, TIRMIDHI, ABU DAOOD, IBN MAJAH, AND DARAMI)

The words, “HER MARRIAGE IS VOID.” was repeated three times!!

Now how would you answer the above hadith bro. Zack?

Keeping the above Hadith in mind and another hadith which grants her full permission to get married without her wali’s input, the Hanafis reconciled between the two by saying that if the wali thinks there is no kufu (suitability), then the guardian has the right to consent because we care for women goddamn it! We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t! :)

If there is kufu, then according to the other hadith which gives her full permission, the Hanafis say that the wali has no right to consent. And who decides if there is kufu or not? The judge of course!

Suitability is considered in six things:

1. Lineage, if the two parties are of Arab origin;

2. Islam;

3. Freedom;

4. Wealth;

5. Religiousness;

6. Profession.

Now about kufu in wealth the following is the rule for it:
4. Wealth

This entails the suitor possessing:

a) the amount of mahr (dowry) that is customarily given up front (f: not the whole mahr), and

b) a month’s support for the wife, if without a job, or being able to provide for the wife daily if with a job.

Beyond this, having little or much wealth is of no consideration in terms of suitability.

btw…if you go back and re-read your well written initial post this is what you will find there:”……The Hanafis (whose followers are the most numerous) are the most lenient. According to Kitab-ul-Fiqh, an adult woman has the right to marry of her own choice. The wali (guardian) has no say whatsoever if the bride and groom are of equivalent social standing……”

I hope after reading the above your following objection will be answered.

>>>>>>>I disagree even more with the annulment power that Hanafis give to the guardian of a woman in case the woman and her husband are not of same social standing. While I think that generally assortative mating is fine, I don’t believe there should be sanctions against it. This rule goes against the egalitarian principles of Islam and enforces a stratified society where a poor man cannot marry a rich woman. That is WRONG. And in case the woman is not happy with her poor husband who can’t provide for her, well she could seek a divorce herself.

>>Why does her guardian need the right to annul the marriage?

Because guardians have more experience! We don’t call them ‘guardians’ for no reason! :)
How would President Bush feel if one of his daughters ran away and got herself married of to…..let’s say……..some guy off the street’s kid? It would bring shame on her family! Obviously he would feel hurt and devistated for obvious reasons!!

And if there is a dispute, the judge will decide.

Peace

Posted by: Rayhan (7 comments) at September 25, 2003 7:04 PM

You understood it wrong.

You got me there. I didn’t read my original post before replying to you and I got it wrong.

Keeping the above Hadith in mind and another hadith which grants her full permission to get married without her wali’s input

See there are conflicting Hadith on this topic. Therefore, I see no problem with taking a more lenient position.

I have a strong objection to those 6 factors of “kufu”. That goes against my egalitarian instincts.

Because guardians have more experience!

That’s true for the guy as well but a man’s father does not have such control over him. Plus the guardian has his own likes/dislikes.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at September 26, 2003 2:06 AM

I would not consider the ask-imam site to be one of the best sources of Hanafi fiqh.This is the same scholar who ruled that high heels were haraam, and women may only leave the house in the case of necessity. From what I have read, his answers appeal mainly to men from the subcontinent, and some of his daleel is questionable. Many times his answers simply include lines like “we should not question.”

Posted by: A (3 comments) at September 26, 2003 11:16 AM

I don’t have the time to answer questions or objections so I guess I will drop it.

If the ask-imam site is not too appealing (for obvious reasons), then there is a Hanafi fiqh group on Yahoo. There are over 2400 members from across the globe. People send in questions and reputable Hanafi scholars answer them. I really like it and the answers there are more detailed as compared to ask-imam. Here is the link to the Hanafi Yahoo fiqh group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hanafi/

There are groups for the other three Mazhabs as well. And if you are a Salafi (like Osama bin Ladin) then you can go to www.islam-qa.com for answers by a Salafi scholar.

Peace

Posted by: Rayhan (7 comments) at September 26, 2003 5:43 PM

Rayhan: Thanks for the links. I don’t follow any particular mazhab myself though I have read lots about Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at September 29, 2003 4:58 AM

BBC reports “Pakistani women to marry freely”

Link

We are moving in the right direction.

Posted by: NJ (1 comments) at December 24, 2003 1:42 PM

NJ: Thanks for the link. That’s indeed good news.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at December 24, 2003 11:41 PM

aslam alikum!!!i recently done my graduation.i wanted to do masters but my dad refused as he wan me to marry one of my cousin.i don like my cousin at all and my dad is forcein me to marry him but i refused.i like someone but hes christian and he’ll convert soon.i don know what to do…im very confused.plz help me.

Posted by: amira akbar (1 comments) at January 13, 2004 4:53 PM

Amira: Sorry to hear that. Hope you can convince your Dad not to force you into marriage. Sorry I can’t help you much, but you should definitely consider all available options.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at January 15, 2004 1:51 AM

asalaamu alaikum… i have known a girl for nearly 4 years now and from early on wanted to marry this person but was too young… i am nearly 20 now but my mother and father condemns our marriage and say that if we ever marry we would never set foot in their house. Whereas her parents are more stricter and do not yet know of me… he parents are getting her married to som1 who she does not know in just over a months time… yet she is too afraid to confront her family as of the fair that they will dis-own her from the family… the problem also is that we are merely able to financially support our selfs if we did choose to marry… what should be the best path to take?

Posted by: Kashif (1 comments) at January 19, 2004 10:38 PM

the best thing to do would be to talk to the girls family, i know it seems difficult but believe me if you dont tell them there never gonna know are they!! it may not be as hard as you think.

you should make it clear this is what both of you want and you would like to have there blessings insha allah all will be well. If you dont speak up you will end up kicking yourself wondering WHAT IF? and thats a bumma.

good luck!!

Posted by: ats (1 comments) at January 20, 2004 4:40 PM

not all gaurdians are wise….there are many guardians who only care about money and ethnicity. if a woman is willing to marry a man who is poor and live that lifestyle, then why can’t she make that choice? she has a brain, she can undersatnd the situation. why are women always treated like children in Islam as if they can’t decide what’s best for themselves just like men can?
why doesn’t a man need a guardian?…maybe money is not an issue with males but often times men marry for the wrong reason and yet they are allowed to maek that decision. i think it’s absolutely disgusting to accuse yoiur children of committing zina after they marry without your consent…..even if yoiu consider that to be disrespectful, how could you do that to your chldren?….anyone who does that obviously has issues and should not be anyone’s guardian in the first places. most of those cases in pakistan ahve to do with the girl or guy not marrying within their tribe or ethnicity.

Posted by: lena (1 comments) at January 27, 2004 3:41 PM

lena: You are correct.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at January 28, 2004 1:35 AM

as salam ‘alaikum

In our 4 schools of Jurisprudence, forced marriage is not allowed. The girl’s consent is essential. If she says “no”, then it is “no”.

Though for her to marry someone she has to take the permission of her father in the Maliki school, however this is not a requirement in the Hanafi madhab.

Marriage is half of islam,

and Allah knows Best and His Nabi (saas) knows best

Posted by: wadood (12 comments) at March 4, 2004 1:55 PM

wadood: Forced marriage is not allowed, though it does happen in a number of countries.

Permisison of father for a girl is generally required based on a number of conditions by all madhabs. My post has the details.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at March 4, 2004 2:59 PM

as salam ‘alaikum

I think dear brother you just repeated my post.

The Hanafi Madhab differs from the other three madhabs in the case of permission, by the stronger view.

and Allah knows Best and His Nabi (saas)

Posted by: wadood ali ahmed al Sijistani (12 comments) at March 4, 2004 3:25 PM

wadood: There are conditions under which Hanafi madhab also does not allow a woman to marry without her father’s permission.

According to Kitab-ul-Fiqh, an adult woman has the right to marry of her own choice. The wali (guardian) has no say whatsoever if the bride and groom are of equivalent social standing. However, if they are not of equal standing, then the guardian has a very powerful veto. He can not only refuse to marry the woman, he can also get the marriage invalidated within a year of the wedding or before the couple have a child.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at March 4, 2004 6:11 PM

as salam ‘alaikum

Zakariyyah: Why do you assume that I dont know these conditions?

Assuming and judging the other (assuming about his ignorance) is a great evil, and only leads to argumentation and that favourite word “fitnah”

All I said is that the Hanafi madhab differs from the other madhabs on the issue of permission.

You just repeated again the point of difference between the madhabs, thankyou for that

seems like you did not read my post, though it is of no importance and only makes a general fact

and Allah knows Best

Posted by: wadood (12 comments) at March 6, 2004 9:48 PM

as salam ‘alaikum

Zakariyyah:

Please avoid argumentation, it leads to assumptions and judgements. As far as I know, I never had nor did contradict any point you said in any thread here.

But I dont know why are you repeating my posts and making false assumptions.

To avoid any more grudges, I would not comment nor visit your vision.com anymore

wish you all the best with this site

ma ‘assalama

Posted by: wadood (12 comments) at March 6, 2004 9:55 PM

wadood: Sorry if I offended you. I was just trying to qualify your statement about the Hanafi position.

I do hope that you visit and comment again.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at March 10, 2004 4:24 PM

What is “marriage” in Islam. What is “love” in Islam? In between a consugal life of a man and a woman , if any how the man need to marry another woman , what will Islam say? In that case what is the description of “LOVE”. As per Islamic law , Then in one mind how two souls are living?

Posted by: Mohiuddin Masud Shakil (1 comments) at March 12, 2004 8:05 AM

bassem
how are you im a good man im looking for woman for marry

Posted by: bassem (1 comments) at March 27, 2004 11:48 AM

bassem: This is NOT a matchmaker site.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at March 28, 2004 1:02 AM

If a man marries a woman and was forced into to it by his parents but never touched that woman after or had a physical or emotional relationship, is the marriage annulled?

Posted by: zakia (1 comments) at April 15, 2004 6:12 AM

zakia: How should I know?

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at April 19, 2004 2:54 PM

Assalamoalaikum
I wanted to ask u a question that u said women can marry according to her will.but if her parents are not willing still she can.but if it goes opposite and men parents do not will to marry a women he likes..and if the girl is eligible enough to be married..are the parents wrong?.Islam says that society must know about the marriage but tell me one thing love marriages are never accepted here in our society nobody likes especially parents from both sides wills to make their son or daughter marriage according to their will..if nobody wills can they marry.but it is also a sin to hurt parents and dont agree with them..so what should be done if u agree to marry someone.?
second question
tell me one thing u said it is permissible to take another wife..well this doesn’t happen..tell me the main reason why men wills to marry a second women.when he gets everything from wife still he marry.it is impossible to balance between two wives in this century…should wife give her husband permission or if she can’t accept can she forbid her husband..tell me according to Islam..it does happens that husbands then go to other girls…what should be done that the husband gets satisfied..should she pray for her or he should try to become pious?….

Posted by: saba farooq (1 comments) at July 25, 2004 3:51 PM

saba: About your 1st question, I think both a man and a woman have a right to marry whether their parents agree or not. Trying not to hurt one’s parents is important, but parents can be wrong at times as well.

I don’t understand your 2nd question. I never said anything about it being permissible to take another wife.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at July 25, 2004 9:55 PM

If a believing man and a believing woman have knowingly committed fornication, seeked Allah’s repentance and have decided to get married, is this marriage void due to the fact that the believing man and woman have already fornicated before legally getting married????

Can any one respond to this question with some authentic proof from Qur’an or authentic hadith??? E mail me please: jaylyrikal@yahoo.com

a salaam a laikum

Posted by: MUJAHID (1 comments) at July 28, 2004 8:16 PM

Mujahid: I don’t think that the marriage is void. However, I am not an Islamic scholar or mufti etc.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at July 30, 2004 3:38 PM

Asslamu Aleykum!
I am from UA thats Ukraine. Everybody knows that in this country actually Christianity heads:(((
I am a muslim, from the Al Qirim thats the Autonomous Republic that is in parts of Ukraine Independent Government that locates above The Black Sea.I was born and lived in a muslim family, I listened to personal opinions of many muslims. So I surely realize what Islam is… But once after I finished the Crimean Turkish College for preparation in studying in World Universities, I have entered the KMA Academy that is in Kiev city (the capital city of Ukraine). I have met a Christian Girl that really attracts me. We have known each other for many months… Just she is almost orphan.I mean her mum and father just refused to help and bring her up. This way she decided as a Brave hearted Girl work and cover all her tuition fees and all her bills herself, It’s so difficult I could realize, believe me, She is only 20!!!And We really love each other. But there is still one really serious problem that bothers us to get married, that’s the religional differences, I can’t marry coz she is a chrisitian, and she can’t marry coz she afraids of smth… By the way, She is somehow got the American religion (Maybe you heard about that) The Book of Mormon. So she believe in it. We thought and considered that if we marry with different relional and mind understanding we will divorce very soon… So we decided to come to consensus that if I could prove that the Islam is the Truth she will accept and we’ll marry inshallah…
Please, I am on the start now, I am trying to explain it, I know much things, and everything I have tried but She believes only in me and will listen only myself none else, why i am saying that I have tried to bring imams that then she refused, was afraid of them. I think you understand me well. So, please, help me, She is the person I live for.
Soqran

Posted by: Abdurrahman Al'uddin (1 comments) at October 12, 2004 7:26 AM

I know a virgin muslim girl,26, who had a boy friend. He promised to marry her and brought her to his house and slept with her. He then avoided to meet her. Can the /boy girl marry to other as Quraan states” Only Zani and Zaniah can marry each other and they cannot marry other persons”
What should the girl do now.
Pl mail me the answer as it is real story and the girl told me to find a solution.

Posted by: tayab (1 comments) at October 16, 2004 12:57 PM

in pakistan or south asian people in us and canada are now most likely to marry their son or daughter in their own family like mother’s side and father’s side. and the male and female in this marriage most offen are cousins or family friends and they are rasied in front of each other and in this way these marriages are some what different than both arranges and love marriages bcz the male and female both know each since long and they are sometimes good friend or they have nice allience with one and other.

Posted by: javedyar (1 comments) at October 30, 2004 11:43 PM

I am lookig for an online arranged marriage. I am 24 years old, and my penis is 4 inches long. Love me baby. I have a nice house in West Vancouver, British Columbia, with lots of money. Email me plz

Posted by: arya forouzandeh (1 comments) at December 9, 2004 1:40 PM

My Dear Muslims Brother and Sisters, All praise to Allah that finally i have found a site that i can truely relate to. I am in a terrible state right now i seek for Allah’s help and guidence all the time. My parents sent me to study in the US and have completed my studies Alhamdulillah. There i met with a very decent American girl whose moral values and character is excellent. She was a born Chriatian but then Allah opened the doors of Islam for her and i introduced her to it. She is Alhamdulillah a few steps away from converting to Islam. I did propose to her to get maried to me and she said yes and also her parents. I Also introdused her to my Parents when they came to visit me. They also found her decent but now that i have come to Pakistan to visit them they a outrightly against this marriage because of cultural differences and them having a good status in the family and society they are afraid of my decision putting them to shame. They put me on a gulit ride everyday and tell me how selfish my decision is and i am willing to take up one person against the rest of the family. They have spent alot of money on my education as well and tells me that my Grandma will die to hear this and that my father might divorce my mother because of my decision and that i should forget abt her and marry a women from the same culture as they know that she is going to stick by me and i will be happy with her. But i know for sure that i am Inshallah going to be happy with the person i have already choosen to be my wife. I know that in Islam i have complete freedom to choose to get married to who ever i want to but i am also scared that by hurting my Mother and Father i wont be forgiven by Allah. And my Parents tell me this over and over again. But i truely luv this person and have already giving her a ring too of which Parents dont know abt. I am in a terrible state of mind and need your help please.

Posted by: Aamer S (1 comments) at June 20, 2005 5:01 AM

a salaam alaykum

I am Italian but live in the UK. I am in a similar position to Aamer, as months ago I met the man I would love one day to be my husband. He is from Pakistan and is the most beautiful soul I have ever met.
I was born Christian but became closer and closer to Islam while growing up and living in the Middle East for a while. I have what I consider decent principles and we love each other so so much. He has just left for Pakistan to visit his family and will tell them about me in the next few days…I am scared to death that they won’t even want to meet me just because of my background. I am not Pakistani but I know I will stick to him forever. I know how important their ultimate decision is and that’s why I am so scared. He loves them very much and I respect him and them a lot. I know he cannot go against them so all I can do now is pray that they will give me one chance to meet them and show them how important their approval is to me. He is the most precious soul I’ve ever encountered and love him with all my heart.
I have found this site really helpful and interesting. My thirst for knowledge about Islam is growing and I am finding this site very useful. I would like to thank you all.
Good luck Aamer, I hope all will work out for you inshallah. May god be with you and guide you through this difficult time.

Posted by: Irene (1 comments) at July 3, 2005 10:22 PM

Dear Irene,
It was so nice to hear that you, too are going through the same as I. I am Aamer’s fiance. You and I share the exact same circumstances. Aamer finally made it back from Pakistan last week (we didn’t think the US would approve his visa-so that alone was a major undertaking). Aamer’s family has flat-out refused our marriage. Even going as far to insult him time and time again. These desperate circumstances are taking a toll, as his family says they will never speak or look at him again. I have desperately tried to let them get to know me, and I have accepted his culture, traditions and beliefs (I recently converted to Islam). Still, his parents don’t care. As far as they are concerned my only intention is to steal their son from them. As far as culture there, it is very different than we are used to. I’m sure you must know that in our culture the family supports children in their happiness, but in Pakistani culture even more important than the child’s happiness is the happiness of the society in general. There is such a fear of “what people will say” that they seem to let that fear claim importance over anything else. I am not trying to scare you, I just want you to be prepared for the worst. At this point Aamer and I don’t know what to do. My father has given him permission to marry me, but he does not want to go foward without his family’s blessing. Therefore, we are stuck. According to Islam we need to marry, but need to marry with family’s permission. Is it more important to marry after a 6 year relationship, or to not marry and obey his parents? We are asking so many Imam’s and it seems we get a different answer everytime. We get no answer after performing Istakhara time and time again. I am so glad I am not alone. If you come up with any ideas please let me know, and I will do the same for you.
Khuda Hafiz,
Miranda

Posted by: Miranda (1 comments) at July 7, 2005 9:58 PM

Assalamu Alaikum dear Brothers and sisters in Islam & Ramadan Mubarak.

This is in response to Aamer and Miranda. I was so pleased to hear these story, not because I am happy about your situation but because it showed me that i was not alone. My husband and I are so in love, i never thought I could love anyone like this, but his parents do not approve of our marriage, have refused to meet me and are accusing me of breaking up their families. His mother has already manage to seperate us but after a year, we still very muc in love with each other and miis eachother so bad. My story is exactly the same as Aamer, and I don’t know what to do. I love him so much and I find it impossible to let go of him. I converted to Islam 2 years ago, and all I want is to be a good Muslima for my husband and raise my children making sure their fear Allah and giving them good Islamic value. Lately his mother told him to tell me that if I took him away from her, she will also ask Allah to take a child away from me, and she will curse me. She said I was destroying her life, her son’s life and her family, she said so many horrible things to me, I can’t believe it.
I just wanted you guys to know, that the only way is through Allah, and that I will make Dhuas for you.

Salam
Ameena

Posted by: Ameena (1 comments) at October 3, 2005 7:33 PM

I’m hoping someone out there can give me some helpful advice. My fiance and I had been together for almst 3 years up until a month ago. He is Muslim and I was raised a Christian, but am considering converting. Our problem is that his family has never accepted me because I’m not from his home country, and I wasn’t raised a Muslim. A month ago, his family asked him to come home to visit his mother who was sick, and while he was there, was forced into an arranged marriage. He doesn’t want to be with her, and is stuck because he doesn’t want to hurt his family, but in return it’s ruining our lives. They haven’t consummated their marriage because he wants to get out of it. Can their marriage be voided somehow?

Posted by: anon. (1 comments) at October 9, 2005 1:27 PM

Assalamu-alaikum,

I wish to discuss a problem about forced marriage which happened recently.

My friend was in love with a British-born Bangladeshi girl since last July and they loved each other very much and wished to get married.

Their intentions were in the interest of both parties they didn’t want to run away but approach their respective families when they thought the time was right.

Anyway this girl was taken to Bangladesh in December, in the hidden agenda that her nanny was ill and wanted to her very much, as she did not expect much she went along with her parents.

Two days after they landed in Bangladesh, her mother approached her and told her that she must get married to someone they had already chosen and arranged for her.

All this happened behind her back, she had no say in who she married, infact the guy she was forced to marry who is also a British-born Bangladeshi was turned down by her back in October. She told him about my friend and her and at the time it seemed he understood.

Her father had a heartattack when she told him about my friend and her mother threatened to kill herself if she did not marry their chosen guy.

Her mother even confessed that they knew all along what was happening back in the UK, but kept tight lipped in fear she might run away.

She has decided to go along with the marriage for the sake of her family, but it can be said that she is never going to be happy in her life.

I am aware this is against the principals of Islam and carries a heavy punishment for both her parents and the person who marrys forcefully.

Could you please shed some light in what could be done about this inhuman act

cheers

Posted by: Jureal (1 comments) at January 8, 2006 1:02 PM

hello!!!asalaam walikum…my name is rehana im married…to guy from bangladesh…he is already married since last six years…and last years he have one baby boy….i married to him 7months ago…now my husband want to divorcee his first wife….and she knws about my marriage….without her premission my husband got married to me….now she made an harassment case on my in.laws . for my husband……now husband trying for divorcee…pls suggest me how my husband will come..out off it…. n how many days it will take my husband was not happy,,,with his first wife from the day he got,,, married and that kid which born last year,,,,was an accident…..pls help me

Posted by: rehana (1 comments) at February 13, 2006 2:27 AM

Asslamalikum

I have been married for 4 years. my husband has not had sex with me for 3 months now. I heard that if this is the case our marriage is finished. is this true

Posted by: kaniz (1 comments) at August 25, 2006 9:50 AM

kaniz: You will have to check with an Islamic scholar. Or check the websites like sunnipath.com which answer such questions.

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at August 29, 2006 1:17 PM | PGP Sig

Assalamu Alaikum,

Thank you for posting your article. I’m currently stuck in this unwanted feeling and situation. I’m an Indonesian, who wants to marry an American, who just converted to Islam last year. He eagers to learn and practices the religions, including the fasting, shalah, etc. He is really trying to ask forgiveness to God for all his sins in the past. However, my parents do not want me to marry him because of his past, and also because they are not sure that I will still be able to practice the religion the right way if I marry him, especially if I live in America, though I have let them know that there are resources and Islamic community in America that we can join and everything. But they still say no. They do not even want to get to know or meet this man. I understand that they want the best things for me. They are afraid if they let me marry this man and there are problems in the future, God will punish them because they have give me permission to marry this man, which leads to that problems. However, I feel like I don’t have any say in this situation. I feel like they are listening but not understanding. If I end up marrying this man, I will still try to be a good muslim and practice of course. My religion is my principle, and I will not leave my religion and that is for sure. My parents say that if I decide to marry him then, they feel that it is best that we should not see each other anymore. I’m confuse. Because, why would my parents do that to me? I just do not understand. I do not want to just keep doing what my parents do when my heart says no, because I feel that that’s not right, because I’m lying. I do not know what else to do. Would you please give me some advice? Thank you,

Wassalamu Alaikum,

Dwi

Posted by: Dwi (1 comments) at September 18, 2006 3:59 PM

Dwi: I guess you could try convincing your parents that your religious convictions as well as those of the guy you want to marry are deeply held and also that you too love each other and do want to get married. Beyond that, I am not sure. Good luck!

Posted by: Zack (1803 comments) at September 27, 2006 1:19 PM | PGP Sig

Dwi, when someone converts to Islam, their past sins are automatically forgiven.

Posted by: Paul (1 comments) at November 25, 2006 10:53 AM

Asalamualikum,I wanted to say that my mother really wanted me to marry my cousin since a young age i knew that but never agreed we went on holiday to my country a few yeras ago and my mother really wanted me to marry him i had to agree with no choice everyone was against me at that time we got married we talked on the phone for nearly a year after and i just couldnt bring myself to love him anymore i dont know what to do i went back to my country last year again and realised that i had no feelings for him anymore i told him that and he said he was going to kill himself and if he had done that his mother wouldve done the same because that is her only son and his mother is also my mums sister so it will cause a realy big fight towards the family i didnt know what to do so i told him that i was joking im so stuck i cant braek my mums heart and also cant stay happy with this marriage also in islam it says you have to listen to your parents all the time please can you give me some advice on my email thank you.

Posted by: s (1 comments) at March 5, 2007 8:55 AM

Dear S,
if he is a good person then obey your mother and ask Allah for the love of that man in your heart,and insha Allah you feel it, because Allah says every ones heart is in between my two fingers on which side I want I can turn it,
believe me its my own story now I married for 23 years Alhumdulilah have children and living a happy life,by the grace of Almighty Allah,

Posted by: Mehar Afshan Saeed (2 comments) at March 17, 2007 7:56 PM

1) The only thing that the different fiqh schools show is that they have different and various opinions. Really depends who you ask. You extremists, anti-women preachers/scholars, imams, muftis etc. God created muslims as one people. Ahadith and these fiqh schools only scatter the majority into sects and sectarian difference will most like only increase.

2) The main thing to be noticed is that God sent a messenger, Muhammad, to relate to mankind, a message. This message is known as the holy Qur’an. Anything besides that is - in my humble opinion - bidah (innovation) and only serves selfish and manmade causes. The basic conclusion being - it is manmade and nothing manmade can ever remotely compare to a divine message from God.

3) If all things held equal then the Qur’an teaches us NOTHING, when it comes to “wali”, permissions, cast differences, family being more suitable for marriage. In fact God treats man and women alike and speaks of love in their hearts when they marry. Arranged and forced marriage is not just going against God, but also against the very basic nature of humans. We choose our own friends but we can not choose our own spouse?

4) Walis do not always have the best of intentions. It is no secret that majority of muslims especiallyn from the south eastern parts of Asia, prefer their family members instead of other nationalities, casts, races, faiths etc.

5) If you believe in GOD, then you are only responsible for him. You parents deserve (usually) respect but confusing respect with surrendering all soverignity as far as rights to marriage with whoever, right to study, right to work, right to be an individual is concerned, is ridiculous. Wake up and smell the coffee. If you follow in the footsteps of your parents you may please them but are you pleased? Is it fair of parents to want to interfere in every legal and adult decision of yours? Unless 90% actually fall in love with their cousin, there is no basis for inter family marriages other than the dominance and well racism of parents. That is not justified. When one day you are faced by God, he will not accept that you acted to please your parents and you acted badly or did something to hurt another human being. You are the only person responsible for your own actions. Nobody else, not your parents, Muhammad, the muftis, the imams. If humans were perfect this would not be applicable perhaps but fact remains. we are not eperfect and thus we should make our own decisions and live by them. If they turn out to be mistakes, then they are our mistakes.

The wali perception and need has been invented by people who think they are mightier than God Himself, and who think God is apparently forgetful seeing as he forgot to give Muhammad this knowledge which could later serve as a part of the Qur’an. If the Qur’an is the ultimate and detailed guidance, which Allah states then what else do you need?

Marry who ever you like and be happy. And parents must respect that it is your choice and live with it. If not then they may not be great parents afterall.

I would never marry into my family. I believe in spreading your blood so I am indifferent to cast, race, creed, profession, and in some cases even faith, as I have met more non muslims who act as devout muslims, and too many muslims who act like devout atheists and display ignorance about their own faith, pick and choose what they have been brainwashed to believe. I will marry whoever treats me right, gives me respect and is loyal and trusts me - as I would be to him. Anything less is unacceptable.

Posted by: Huda (1 comments) at April 3, 2007 5:17 AM

Salaam Alikeum Rayhan:

I have to disagree with what you said regarding choosing a mate of your choice but listening to and trying to please parents as their motivation is one of love and concern for their child.

I have discovered personally that this is the farthest thing from the truth regarding the culture and practices in Pakistani villages. The motivating factor seems to have nothing to do with their child’s desires/wishes but 99.9% to do what the parents think will be of greater benefit to them and their desires personally. Men are being forced to marry girls they don’t want to as well. Men are forced even into polygamous marriage arrangement by being forced to marry one of their parents choosing even if they voice their wishes to not marry a 2nd wife and wish to remain married to their 1st wife to please the parents. Quite frankly, too often the parents do not care for anything but themselves and their personal benefit. They follow culture rather than Islam in the villages and claim that the culture is Islamic when in fact the practices are a distortion of Allah’s word.

May Allah protect us all from such deception and manipulation from those who are “supposed” to have our best interest at heart.

Allah Hafiz

“You should also consider the advise of your parents as their advise is
motivated by their love and concern for you.”

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

Posted by: Aishafbi786 (2 comments) at June 30, 2007 12:50 AM

Salam alykom brothers and sisters, I’m in need of despert help! i’ve known this girl for 7 years and iam 23 years old and she is 22. We love each other so much and want to be with each other so bad. Her father dose not like me because long time ago he found out that i was talking to her and kept telling me not to talk to her again , witch me and her couldnt stop doing. When i came to ask for her hand i spoke to her older married sister to convince her father that i want to come and ask for her hand. I have done that because i did not want her father refusing my dad witch could hurt him. When she spoke to the father he stopped her in the middle of the conversation and said ” I will never say yes to him weather iam dead or alive” he says that i have caused problems and that iam a lier, and all i do is problems. The father heard bad things about me from his family witch isnt true at all , you know people talk a lot these days. The father also said I know whats right for my daughter and if she wants him then let her marry him but i will take my hands off her and will never agree to it .The girl wants to be with me and she loves me so much and knows me very well. I pray to Allah 5 times a day, i Fear Allah (SWT) . I dont know what to do in my life, everything is over for me , its like her father shut the door on my face and ended my dreams and future because this girl is my future and my dreams. I cry daily and ask for Allah to help me. Should i let my father ask for her hand without letting my father know that his answer is NO or what sha’ll i do ? Her father wont meet with me so i could talk to him and convince him, and the girl is too shy to convince her father becaue he is also tempered. Please i’m despertley in need of help we are crazy about each other and want each other so bad , we just dont know what to do . Should i ask for her hand officaly and tell my dad to ask for her hand or what should i do ? thank u very much please reply to me asap becaue i’m realy going crazy, i cant sleep, i cant eat, i cant think. God Bless You and bless every muslim!

Posted by: Muhanad (1 comments) at September 30, 2007 1:37 PM

salam alykum,
I am british pakistani young lady and have been practising my religion for along time.unfortunately my family are wanting to take me to pakistan and get me married to someone who i do not like, for my parents sake i did try to communicate with the person they wish me to marry, however our thinking were totaly different… i have told my family i can not marry this person, but they have been abusive with me and are threatening to disown me. i am so emotionally depressed, as many proposals for me have come from within uk and even from pakistan from extremely good families but my family beleive my marraige will end up in a divorce, but if i marry this particular man they have chosen for me, i will stay happy… its like they are writing my naseeb… i do not know wat to do? i am so scared, shall i run away but then they will think i have ran away with someone when i havent,,,,,,, i dont know wat to do, as i do not have any other sibling to support me… i keep praying to god but then i feel as the time is closing onto me , and i start having suicidal thoughts i know ths is haram but what can i do, i dont want to marry this man,,,,, please help me

Posted by: lena (1 comments) at December 25, 2007 7:15 PM

Dear Lena,

I will pray for you. I respect your religion but please cry out to God in the name of Jesus the Messiah. He said he is the only bridge between God and Man. God confirmed Jesus’ words by raising him from the dead. Ask God in Jesus name to bring you a friend who can pray for you. Please do not take your life. You are precious to God and as difficult as it may seem he is using this trial to bring you closer to Him. Picture your life in the palm of God’s loving hand. Again I will pray for you. Everyday.

Posted by: lightfoot (1 comments) at January 7, 2008 1:57 PM

Dear Lena,

Assalam Alikum, My advice to u is not to marry someone u dont want to, no matter how much pressure ur family is putting on u. Most likely u wont have feelings for tht person bcoz u wl take it as forced marriage and u wont be able to put any effort in it to make it work. Parents are just pressurising u but they wl b ok after sometime. Listen to whatever they say but make sure u dont make decision under any pressure. Sometimes in order to keep our parents happy, u end up ruining ur own life n then nobody is with u bcoz thy think its all ur own fault if marriage doesnt work out. I have very bad experience myself and im stuck now in my life and nobody is with me. I was forced to marry a guy i didnt like to but I agreed for the sake of my family’s izzat and bcoz my mum put alot of pressure on me. I could never accept him,every1 else was happy but me. I regret everyday for making such a huge mistake which has ruined my life and got me into so much trouble. My parents were happy but when I told thm tht im not happy in this marriage and dont see any reason staying in this marriage they all become abusive to me, they forcing me to stay with him or they will disown me and nobody wl talk to me. I have made it clear to them tht i cant live my life for them, I cant waste my life with somebody i have no felings for. I am commiting sin for not fulfilling his rights. I am no all alone with my decision to file for divorce and get out of it. I am suffering alot and its even more beiziti for the family. I regret so much tht I should have thought it earlier…I thought I will make it work n i wl b ok after some time but I was wrong. I would suggest u my sister tht dont ruin ur life under any pressure coz u wl have 2 options either stay with him n live dissatisfied life (if u dont like tht person after marriage) or go against ur family to get out of tht marriage.. I must tell u both options are very difficult and u wl end up in a depressing life with no peace of my mind. Take action now!! everything is in ur hand and Islam give u the right to say ur opinion. end of the day its ur life and u should be living the way u want. Think wisely and if u need any help or anything just let me know.. ok best of luck

Posted by: Zara (1 comments) at January 17, 2008 2:54 PM

Salamz All,

I was trying to do some research of forced marriages and what Islam has to say about taking parents complete satisfied consent. My name is Kainaat and I am 28 years old and am the sole breadwinner of the family. I have a younger brother who is still in University and an elder sister who is married. I had been friends with a guy of a similar intellect and background for 5 years. 2 years back he proposed and after much thought and consideration I accepted his proposal. His family knew me very well and his sister too had been a very good friend of mine. SHaring same backgrounds same moral, ethical and religious values, we were sure this would work out, but as soon as he was ready to settle down with a decent job enough to support his upcoming family, we would disclose this to our parents. He has no issues with me supporting my parents ad=nd we both are mature enough to understand our responsibilities according to Sharíah. Now he is ready but to our major surprize, his mother and sister, have completely gone against us. They say that I have a life long responsibility and that am not fit for their family settings since my attenstion will be divided and that will be unfair as the grooms parents. I should give them my 100%. They have been making up stories about me to contaminate his brains and he has been fightinf with them for the past 2 months. He has asked me to withdraw twice because he knows that his mother will NOT agree and will NEVER See his face if he makes this decision. She asked him to leave the house if he Marry’s me. She cannot leave her and therefore the only option he has is to leave me.
My parents are very fond of him, and especially my father who has an accute condition of disability also has been very involved with him taking him as a son and now is very unhappy and depressed on this situation.
His mother is going behind his back and finalizing other girls for his maariage so that he completely drifts away from me and is trying all her ways to manipulate him, but he disagrees and yet she is doing that. He says its very difficult and that we should not drag it.
He and I love each other dearly and have waited for the right time for quite some time. We are mature individuals and I am VERY VERY confused and upset at the weakness of his attitude towards the whole thing, and am soooo ready to face all consequences even if adverse from his mother once we are married. But he is scared.
What do I do?? My whole family, friends, everyone knows about us and that my parents will really suffer too if this doesn’t work out. He says he will suffer if he leaves the house. I agree and don’t want that to happen, I have high regards for anyone’s parents and yes very traditionally i want to live with his whole family and not just him alone. But their grounds to refute me… are they RIGHT?
Can u please advise as to what can I do to help our relationship?? I Alhamdulillah pray 5 times a day and have been reading different recommended Duas from Alims and also have been trying to pray Tahajjud and Sala-tul-Tasbeeh daily… but am sooooo depressed and so stuck up in this situation. Can someone please help me?

Posted by: Sana (1 comments) at May 28, 2008 5:12 AM

Its really ture i agree i hope this may help me with my case DO PRAY FOR ME AND MY LOVE…..

Posted by: Murtaza Shabbir (1 comments) at June 28, 2008 3:23 AM

Salamz!!

I am still praying - he has taken his decision and according to that it is all over…. He didn’t give me any choice and so I am left here alone - Cannot answer any questions because my faith in ALlah is Much greater than anyone else’s decison and action - I know him - even he is in great pain and suffering but cannot do anything any more about it - But I will do something about it and be his Rock!! Though we are not in touch any more for now - but I have faith

I am praying for myself and my better half (inshAllah) Allah SWA will give him stregnth and he will come back to me (Ameen) I have full faith in ALlah… and Murtaza I want you to keep in mind that it’s only faith that will keep us or break us in this life and the hereafter…

And please do remember that what goes around comes around… Allah has his way and thats why without any valid reason according to Shariah - One must not take the risk of breaking hearts - A broken hearts prayer against us may shake our lives…

May Allah help us all..

Ameen…

Posted by: Sana (1 comments) at July 4, 2008 3:29 AM

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