Procrastination

i’d assume that most couples would get to know each other before they become intimate with one another. it would be quite uncomfortable to just…do it without knowing anything about the other person. ah, and i came across your site while bloghopping. quite interesting =)

great post!! i’ve often considered the points you make and totally agree with what you say. to claim that american marriages are unsuccessful based on the divorce rate is not only wrong, it is, in a way, naive. well written.

I just wanted to make one comment. You remarked Hence, they are married as strangers and stay strangers all their lives when talking about different cultural definitions of a successful marriage. You seem to be assuming that all people want the same thing out of a marriage. If two people want out of marriage to have a complementary partnership raising children, and that’s what makes them both happy, then that is a successful marriage for them, even if we personally would find it odd.

Just as there are people in Eastern cultures who wish for a “soul mate/confidante/red-hot lover/best friend” there are people in Western cultures who would prefer the “complementary partnership” type of marriage.

What’s important is the ability to make the choice, not the ultimate decision they make. You seem to go beyond just saying that people should have choice in who they marry and what type of marriage they have, to saying that people should have a certain type of marriage. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

a lot of americans would prolly benefit from arranged marriages ;) more would do it if people didn’t see them as losers….

great post btw.

PS-i had a friend whose dad faxed her a list of reqs from a potentional husband, in big bold-faced he had NO FAT.

I would find it odd too, but it’s really none of my business to interfere with how people want to live their lives as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. I hope they’ll do the same for me.

I think I’m totally late following this post, but I have just been kinda busy lately. Here goes:
I’ll vote for the semi arranged where the guy or girl get to know each other and they were introduced by their parents, or for the make-your-parents-think-its-arranged where the guy and girl get to know each other and then let their parents do all the stuff that parents like to do. As far as getting to know someone, I think in this day and age of technology, there are so many ways to get to know some one without having to continuously meet them. There’s the telephone, email, chatting. Once you’re introduced, I actually think these means are better because you are not nervous (as in meeting in person) and can better speak your mind. Its a better way to evaluate how the other person thinks (provided they are being honest, but then that is a precursor for even when you meet in person).

I agree with the point you make about how people in the Eastern cultures get married for beauty, wealth as well. Actually, unfortunately in most marriages where the to-be-spouses did not get to know each other, the marriages are usually based on superficial things that the parents look for.

I also agree with the fact that divorce may not be the best way to evaluate the success of the marriage.

As far as this society, I dont even know what marriage means here anymore. More and more people are just happy being companions and not getting married. Living together, having kids, the whole lot, but not getting married….I dont know what’s up with that?

yaser - that’s what one would like to think, but you’d be surprised at the kind of maniacs out there who insist that the marriage should be consummated on the first night.

zack..i agree that sometimes parents raise completely ridiculous issues /problems when it comes to marriage…in my post, i was referring to more or less ‘cool’ parents of the i’ll-be-happy-with-what-you’re-happy with variety….in that case, i think parents are more than happy to do their bit, and are usually happy tht their child has found a mate so they dont have to look.
why soem parents throw pointless fits is beyond me….they dont realize that in the end they end up losing out….(and usually its the son or daughter they are losing, and being able to be a part of their life)
i can understand (even though i dont agree) when parents make an issue about ethnicity because they are worried about language, but some people make an issue like u stated above, about even being from the same town in pakistan or being punjabi or being pathan….that’s just dumb..
insha’allah i will be a very cool parent when i grow up (haha that sounds funny)…and my kids can marry whoever they want (almost).

in the case where parents are making a non-issue an issue, i’ve seen some kids just keep on sticking by it and eventually overcoming their parents (one of my friends will be getting married next year after 8 yrs of knowing the guy..and about 4 years of being ready to get married….she’s karachi memon..they’re punjabi rajput), going with the ‘screw the parents’ attitude (which is not a very recommended idea, but i guess i’m confused at what the other option would be ..other than wait and wait and wait), or forget about it all together (which i think is completely retarded..if you didn’t have the guts to follow, you should never have fallen in love)
i think the best advice would be for parents to be a little more understanding (within boundaries of reason) to what their children are presenting, and accept it as an adult decision, and give them their blessing. Trying to control their lives will only ruin them. I’ve seen too many cases.

Interesting discourse Zack.
The only thing I have to add at this moment is that you are staring at the western view as a monolith to justify it as a beast to the east’s beauty (?).
More Later.

It’s way past me bedtime so I’ll keep it short.

You are really employing the “divorce rate” as a maxim and crutch just so you create a stronger opposite. A good versus evil sort of battle where it’s unfair to compare things through b&w tunnel vision.
Overgeneralisation.
All western marriages dont fail.
And all or even most eastern marriages arent unions that produce no love or emotion or stable connection.
I’m sure you don’t believe that but your writing suggests that this strongly.

Writing something in as a column trenched in fiction to speculate on the facts is fine but your writing used the trappings of straightforward journalism/manual writing and I think you need to be a bit more fair by looking at things from all points of view that don’t necessarily support your argument.

And since you don’t know me at all, I’ll keep my negative criticism to myself at this moment because it’ll appear not only insulting but elitist.
Are you familiar with a piece I wrote on the “matrimonials” in Pakistan? It doesn’t examine all sorts of women but it’s based on true stories I’ve heard and some actually I’ve seen.
You might find the idea behind it interesting even if my prose or the content fails to appeal to your sensibilities.
It was published last year in print but less than 3 weeks ago online. I’ll post it on my blog if you’re interested.
G’night for now.

One more thing…
I mean no offense at all and
(begin suggestion)
we can take this somewhere where there are less prying eyes if you aren’t comfortable.
(end suggestion)

Haha ok tyrantblogger.
I’m not really a strong believer in either philosophy or method of madness. I’ve written on this subject, discussed it at a great length which is why I’m really sickintoid of it.
I’ll add my voice to the chorus if something else pops up.
But I’ll be honest, I’m really bored after the sort of discussions I’ve had, things I’ve written and the views I’ve experimented with.
My “matrimonials” social commentary disguised in chicktrick is up on my blog.
Where are you based btw and how long have you lived in Pakistan?

Noted.
Thanks for the info Michael Zackson.

Heh. Sorry I couldn’t resist. Your name is very rhymy. I bet your roadies/groupie chix have it easy writing love poetry for you. ; )

can u send me more info about arranged marriage and if it should be eligle or not

I can’t remember a time in which people have debated so well (and in such a civil manner).

Now, for my two cents…
1) As a whole, more “prospective mates” are being given the choice to say Yay or Nay. As for the pressure, that’s present in many societies, just in different forms. Whether its an Irish girl who wants to marry her Spanish boyfriend (a friend of mine) or a Pakistani girl who didn’t even get the chance to meet who she thought she could be interested in because he was from another part of Pakistan (another friend of mine.) Granted, on the whole, Westerners are more accepting, and that’s something I think we should learn from them. We could certainly use more tolerance.

2)Perhaps it’s just my experience alone, but I do find that Easterners have a more positive outlook on marriage than Westerners do. For Westerners the option of marriage is something that is entered into ONLY after they’ve played the field, established their careers, and are looking to settle down. Men (more so than women, by a large margin I believe) are extremely apprehensive of having to commit to one woman for the rest of their lives. It’s looked at from the perspective of “It’s something you should do later on when you’ve already had your fun” (as if marriage is just going “downhill”.) On the Eastern front, men and woman are expected to get married, yes (you’re an enigma if you don’t), but it’s done with a more positive attitude. I don’t feel it’s because of Eastern men’s resignation, but more that they ACTUALLY do want to share their lives with a significant other (usually at a much younger age.) They look forward to getting married. It’s a rite of passage that they usually welcome. Whether or not that’s because of the anticipated…ahem…conjugal rights, well, that’s another thing altogether. Speaking of “relations”, I think this also plays a very important factor. Western couples have mini quasi-marriages throughout their adolescent and young adult lives, unlike their Eastern counterpart, therefore they (Westerners) are not as “hungry” for the ultimate relationship: marriage.

Hmmm…I guess this turned out to be more like $2, as opposed to 2 cents. I’ll try to trim next time around, Insha Allah.

Thanks for the forum!

i have read you articale and really liked it. i also have an arranged marriage but with me it was differnt i married with my cusine whome i never seen nor talkwith him. now its been two year but i am living with like stranger. because i find him very uninterested man. i am realy kind of forced to live with him because he is my cusine. there will alots of trouble in family then. we have no physicale relationship with each other we don’t talk with each other much. sometime i blame my parnts for that. that is why i hate arrange marriages. i think its good if parents ask their children before they make any deceision. my parents din not ask me. what do you think about this?

Hi,

I am a westerner living in India. I think that misconceptions abound about both western style love marriage and eastern style arranged marriage, so I’d like to make a few points.

The first point is that actually, large numbers of marriages follow an ‘arranged introduction’ model. That is, your parents, friends, colleagues etc may set up an introduction with someone they consider to be eligible (ie suits your personality). This is particularly so if you are older (in your thirties) and a woman. Remember how Bridget Jones’ mum was always trying to find her a boyfriend (in the hope that a boyfriend will turn into a husband.) Arranged marriages used to be the norm in Europe, and it’s really only since the end of world war 2 that people really have been free to make completely independent choices about whom they marry.

Having observed marriages of both kinds, I notice that the happiest IN BOTH CASES are ones where the couple respect each other, receive emotional support from their families, and who share compatible interests and personalities. I’ve just finished talking to an Indian pal of mine who is absolutely terrified that his parents are going to select a girl according their values, but who won’t understand music, which is profession and his life.

At the moment, I am in the process of ‘arranging my own marriage’. That is, I am interviewing guys for the job of being Mr Uchiita. Had I been Indian, then I would have had a lot of help with this, as it is, I’m on my own. Which is proably why 25% of British households are single person ones. The fact remains is that arrange marriages suit a lot of people in India, and would, if socially acceptable suit a lot of people in the west. I would only trust three people in the whole world my mum, my sister and her husband) with the task of finding a life partner. And, if I chose for myself, their opinion of him would be a big factor in my final decision.

I don’t think that westerners focus on physical beauty any more than other cultures. Here, if you have a physical defect or dark skin your chances in the marriage game are slim. This is a very beauty orientated culture, perhaps even more so than the west.

zack - stumbled on this site while procrastinating, don’t know if you or anyone else will ever read this but thought i’d put in my couple of cents’ worth anyhow….i like your post, it’s something i think about often these days - i’m indian and hindu, my boyfriend is pakistani, and of course my parents are totally against us…until not too long ago i never thought i could do the arranged thing - never imagined being able to marry a stranger…but now i wonder. perhaps arranged marriages really are better, maybe rocking the boat isn’t worth it, and anyway, just because i’ve met the love of my life doesn’t mean i should want to spend the rest of it with him, does it, when there are other things to consider? maybe it won’t be so bad after all and i’ll be able to be friends with and fond of the person i marry - after all, proximity can do wonders if both people are basically reasonable…so i trawl the web looking for reasons to believe one thing or the other, and all i find are arguments both ways - as you might expect….

I’m a college student in Springfield, Missouri, USA, doing research for a debate on arranged marriages and “love” marriages. I wanted to first thank all of you for your discussion. It is good to see reasoned arguments on both sides, rather than lengthy diatribes against the other side.

I think the common thread through all of your arguments is how to define a successful marriage. I believe marriage to have many and varried purposes. Several of them are named here: raising children, providing a friend and confidant, providing a foil or complement, and lowly economic, social, and sexual benefit.

A defenition of successful marriage must encompass all these things. If it only includes raising children, then any fertility clinic will do. Friends and confidants require only a roommate. Foils and complements are your family. And economic, social, and sexual benefits can be attained by contractual agreements.

What ties all these things together is love, however in this case it is the Biblical sense. Love is kind, unselfish, giving, and keeps no record of wrongs. If there is a better guide to parenting, friendships, family, and life, I know it not.

Marriage and love tie all these things together. In this way, it makes no difference whether the marriage is arranged by God or Man. The tieing together is by active verb: Love, and is controlable by the doer.

This was what the Biblical writers meant when they compared the relationship of the Church to Christ to the relationship of Marriage. Love is defined by actions, the actions of Christ for his Church, the actions of spouse to spouse. If I can move mountains, but have not love, I have nothing.

I think it is important that romance does not make this list. It is not a marriage based on Active Verb Love, but on Descriptive Noun Romance that fails. This is based on physical beauty and education. “He’s Dreamy,” or whatnot. The medievalists who first talked of Descriptive Noun Romantic Love never envisioned it as centering a marriage. They considered Active Verb Love to be the center, and as such, arranged by God or Man, their marriages held. I don’t think it accidental that this appeared in Christian Europe and not Islamic Near East, Hindu India, or Budhist Far East.

One final thing, if you all haven’t guessed, I am a single, evangelical, Baptist Christian. These are my beliefs and findings on the realm of marriage.

I wish to thank you all again for helping me clarify my own arguments and I look forward to your riposts.

M. Howell

I was just curious, but at what age do the boys/men begin getting married at? And if a Pakistan guy has been living most his life in the US would their parents still possibly force them to fly back to Pakistan to get wed? Is this like a law for there traditional family ways?

Kudos to Zack for maintaining this a very civil discussion :) Nice blog.

Very well written. However I do believe that the parents out there should sit down and talk to their children before reaching a final conclusion. Arranged marriages work out for some, and some they don’t. I’ve noticed parents using arranged marriages as a weapon, “If this happens… I’m sending you to India to get married” Thats funny, I thought marriage was something wonderful. I am still very young but have very opiniated views on the topic. A marriage should NEVER be the result revenge and should be a union between two people and their families. Unlike most people my age I don’t necessarily view arranged marriage as a negative thing as long as the ones getting married get final say. Arranged marriage is much like your friends setting you up with someone and it works out so well that you get married. The media portrays arranged marriages as such a negative thing to western society which is where all these points originate from. IT’S REALLY NOT THAT BAD. If you can’t find someone for yourself, let someone else help you out. Who better than your family who’s raised you your whole life? I’m pretty sure they would have your best interests at heart when finding a match. And if it doesn’t work out… well… everyone’s dealt different cards…

Im OK with arranged marriages…… but I dont know what i will do on the wedding night………………. does the marriage have to be consumated on the wedding night?

Then again, its not as if young people here in the West do not meet strangers in bars etc :)

i think this is stupid

Well, This is a very interesting topic and i’m going to have to agree with Ashley and say that this is stupid. The topic itself is not stupid and some of the posts are relevant, but the whole “get drunk” before your wedding thing is stupid. And people like Arzoo, who made a post on November 3rd, should probably learn how to spell and use proper sentence structure because their writing is equivalent to that of an infants. Anyhow, before I get carried away with making fun of Arzoo’s post, I must say that I think arranged marriages are wrong. Once again, I agree with Ashley and many of these posts are stupid. Keep it real Zack.

Zack: I am actually doing a project on arranged marriages for a sociology class. I need to discuss cultures that still use this way of marriage and the pro’s and con’s about it. I need to research different countries that use it such as India and Japan.

I find some of the comments on your post quite helpful actually. Many of the stats you have listed will help me. I was wondering if you could help point me in a good direction for my project or offer me some websites I could benefit from.

As to me making fun of the grammar in some of these comments… it was all in good fun. Take it easy Zack :)

woots zack, hook up some solid information for my budday Andrew Bryson…this is a tough project and any information that you have would be greatly appreciated by him…im on my knees….HEEEEELLLPPPPPP!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D

Zack: so does your last comment mean that you’re going to help me….or just smile, just thought you should try and make that more clean….thanks mate

Zack: you use to be cool, i thought you were the all mighty zack with over 600 comments and could help us out, well we’re doing our presentation today and its going to be horrible and boring and we were going to talk about you a little bit because we had a great deal of respect for your work…now i dont know what we were thinking….im sorry, your pals….moose, andrew bryson and murph

Did you find any statistics on arranged marriages?

i have to write a story on “a difficult descion” and thought arranged marriages would be approriate- i could maybe set it in modern times in the u.k or u.s.a and have a man/woman have to travel to india/pakistan to get married to someone they haven’t met before. i want to make deep characters but don’t think this can be achieved through the usual “…my parents don’t understand…old-traditions…i want to marry who i want” any ideas? thanx TD

Marriage is a life time agreement between two individuals. I am a big supporter for personal choice. But not everyone is capable for such decision especially where one gets married at very young age. How can one choose if they haven’t met enough peoples (non relative)? What world need today is more emphasis on Education, only then one can able to decide what is best for them in every aspect of life.

For Tainted Dreams

First make sure that you both are true to each other. Then you tell your parents that if you had to choose between this person and them, then it will be your LOVE. It may take years, depending on your conditions, such as whether you are financially independent or not. Affluent parents tend to be more stubborn than others, but eventually you’ll win as time is at your side (you are younger than your parents and they know this). Things may be difficult in the beginning but will smooth out ultimately. I don’t want you to go against your parents but they should be considerate to their child’s feelings.

Goodluck to both of you.

i just want to thank everyone for their ideas, and just reading this discussion has helped! it’s cool that people talk about issues that affect the modern generation!

hello

I think this is a great website. I am going a research paper on Women in Afghanistan. This gave me a lot of information on the women and arranged marriages.

Thanks.

Linny

Imagine this your 11 not even out of primary school, you expect nothing, and out of the blue your parents have told you, you are to be married.
Its to a boy, you may or may not have ever met. You may like him you may not; you are not allowed to object.
Once married you must fill out requirements for this boy including a sexual relationship.
This boy can be anywhere up to 25 years your senior.
This is what it is like for girls like Lia, she is 11 and lives in Indonesia, Jakarta. She has never met this boy.
Or take Nurhayati who is 12, she spoke to a boy and a week later her father had planned the wedding.
These stories are surely heart braking but not compared to the story of our next girl- Santi.
Santi married when she was 12, she is now working at a brothel, her husband decided he liked another girl better and divorced her, girls in this country cannot find a husband after they have participated in a sexual relationship. Unfortunately Santi’s story in not un-common, and if the husband does find some-one else it is blamed on the wife for not looking after him properly.
I believe that Arranged marriages should not happen because…
Now to my first point, Arranged Marriages is an insult to the nature of marriage! Marriage is about taking a vow to create a lasting and loving relationship; it is a ceremony that reflects family and religious values.
To allow Arranged Marriages to continue leads to unacceptable pressure through generations, take Karmi who is 29 she married when she was 12 and is now making her 13-year old daughter Jumaria marry a man 10 years who senior. I don’t know about you but I believe that 29 is a good age to start a family, not become a grandmother.
Arranged marriage decreases rights for Women, often the women have to travel a long way to live with there husband and his family, which makes them very vulnerable and likely to suffer abuse.
Sure some may say it is fine because the family makes the decision, but what if they make the WRONG decision its not like you can go back, A lot of the time arranged marriages can be based on how much money, stock or food the husbands family can give the wives family.
That is like SELLING or TRADING a person, that highly breaches international laws, if we allow this to continue, you may as well let Slaves come back I mean, don’t you sell and trade them? And the wives are being bought to do services for the husband, just like slaves are bought to do services.
So really in letting Arranged Marriages continue on you are really letting a small slavery market live on.
Women in these marriages are unable to get out if mistreated, it’s a deep dis-honor on the family, even if it is very obvious to everyone she is being mistreated.
Take Meena a 20-year old of Indian origins, her parents set her up with a man ten years her senior, she ended up sharing there house with her husbands girlfriend, even though everyone new about this she was unable to go back to her parents for there social status would be destroyed.
Unfortunately some see no way out, take Sujata also an Indian girl from a good family, she got arranged to a son of a family friend, however she was in love with a man from Trinidad and couldn’t bare to confront her parents so she committed suicide, they also think she may have been pregnant.
They say that 95% of these Indian arranged marriages stayed together- I hate to think how many of those women were being abused and mis-treated.
Arranged marriages have started a “bullying point”.
If you are an Indian and you divorce a arranged marriage your parents will disown you, if there were no arranged marriages, many youths would not be left out alone, or feel pressured to continue on with a marriage that isn’t working.
It’s a known fact that many Indian women take overdoses to escape the arranged marriages, more women would be alive today if not for arranged marriages!
If you live in China and have a arranged marriage your only allowed one child, which is discriminating, also these countries believe that girls aren’t important so many get killed, who knows how many young baby girls have been MURDERED, in countries were there isn’t arranged marriages, this doesn’t happen.
Quite Simply parents run adds in newspapers etc to sell there child or look for a person to marry there child, these adds are quite similar to a house add or a advertisement for a car they go something like this-
“Punjabi parents desire beautiful, professional, never married, US raised girl for handsome son, 34, 5’10”/150, fair, slim, athletic, engineer/MBA, consultant in DC area. Enjoys travel, sports, music. Please reply”
Do YOU think its fair to sell a child or youth?
It also creates a rift between countries that do and don’t have arranged marriages, because the ones that don’t, can’t understand why the parents to such horrifying things to there kids.

all these are just fuck in bullshit. dont try to cheat people with these kind of paragraph.

i am a 20 yr old indian girl currently living in usa and 99% of whats written above is right. my parents r pressuring me for marriage and i dont see any way out.
i hope i die before im married to a stranger.

I just realised that all my life i have been surrounded with this topic. My parents had a love marriage. I have been brought up to think that love marriages are not wrong. I have seen all the problems that they had to face. I have heard of the hardships that they had to face initially. I have been brought up with the thinking that marriage is sacred and that i would have the final say in whom i choose to marry. There was never any kind of force used to make me conform to any kind of thinking.

My feelings about this issue is quite flat and cold when i think about it rationally. I can see that arranged marriage (the exterme cases) is not good.However i have come to the conclusion that the intial hiccups faced by couples in any kind of marriage cancell out essentially.

I have always lived in an environment where i thought that a marriage was based first and foremost on love. The other things we worked around. The other things were a part of life. The way my parents approached it was to sustain their love and then create a sucessfull marriage from scratch.

I think love and marriage are two differnt things but have to exist together. Neither one is weak enough to be dependent on the other. Each is a force to be reckoned with by themselves.
There can be no marriage without love. There can be no sustained deep love without a commitment(which in our society transalates to marriage - and rightly so!)

In any marriage - love or arranged - what matters after a while is what value addition each person brings in. How well you cope and how sane you are about things. It matters how much progress you make.

According to me, it doesnt matter how the romantic relationship started what matters is how involved each person is in that relationship.
In a successfull relationship both partners feel strong and powerfull. Both partners feel enthusiastic. Both partners feel supported and loved. Each partner keeps the other person as priority and are supremley dedicated to them no matter what hardships they have to face - that is what enhances a relationship. Sometimes this dedication is impulsive….it is a heart oriented thing. You feel like being dedicated. It is however not always necessary that you will always feel like loving another person. Sometimes this has to be a conscious decision.

This is a really good post. I learned a lot from what your views were on arranged marriages. Thank you.

Thank you Zack.

I would still like to add sometihing to my earlier comments. I have been doing a lot of soul searching recently about love and marriage.

One thing i know is that not all couples who are in love will be able to create a successfull marriage. Infact i think it might be more dangerous to have to marry someone who you are so much in love with and then later discover things about them that you absolutely hate….it is like a heart break and in many cases you will have to undo all your romantic fantasies and rebuild them again.
Oh! For that matter i think in ANY kind of marriage you will have to constantly redo your image of love and loving. There is no constant. The person who you are married to or in love with is also not constant!!!!

An extreme case of arranged marriage is really bad. No one can happily survive the pain of having their life decided for them by their parents without their consent.
This happens still i know and it is sad. Howeve,most of the cases these days are of “arranged love marriages” or “love marriages”.

I believe that one has to live this life true to oneself and keeping the present and the future in mind…..trying never to look at the past.
No matter how you were involved in your marriage(tradditional arranged marriage or a love marriage), i think it is every persons duty to give marriage their everything. I still think that marriage is sacred no matter how or when it came into your life.

Hey Zack, great site. Alot of info. I’m doing a presentation in school on arranged marriage, and I need to know the qualifications for my sources. Can you tell me a little about your background on arranged marriage?

That will do. Thanks a whole lot.

My boyfriend is an Indian. I’m Eastern European. We are both in the States now. We started dating not so long ago but our relationship’s been progressing very fast. We like each other a lot. He’s just told me he loves me. But…I know that his family would not accept me as his wife. But he’s already 25, has graduated and has a job and as I recently figured out his father raised a marriage question before and will raise it soon again as my boyfriend is going to India in a month. And he said he loved his parents to death and they did so much for him and he wouldn’t go against them although he will try to talk to them about me. But he is almost sure about the outcome.
I don’t want to be judgmental. Life is wierd and you can never predict what will happen to you. I believe he sincerely loves me. But… I feel a little deceived. If he knew from the very beginning that this will happen why did he get involved in this? Why is he making both of us suffer? Why hasn’t he told me what I should be ready for?
It’s not that I havent’ asked him but his arguments don’t seem strong enough to me.
Don’t you think if one knows that he/she cannot marry outside his culture(religion/society)he/she should not date outside one?

Yeah, Vicky, I know of innumerable South Asians who enter into relationships(with Whites usually) entirely for sexual reasons while dissimulating all the while about their love for their partner. I think you’ve been used and see little reason for you to be sanguine about the outcome. I’m sure you’re boyfriend intended to dump you right from the day he met you, but South Asians are rather pathetically lust for Whites and have them, till they eventually marry someone that their parents choose. In a nutshell, for the typical unscrupulous South Asian, non-S.Asians are only good for sex, not as wives.

Typo - that should have read, ” I’m sure you’re boyfriend intended to dump you right from the day he met you. South Asians rather pathetically lust for Whites and have them, till they eventually marry someone that their parents choose”

Zack thanks for coreccting Randomguy’s rather unfair statement. Whilst I accept that lot of what Randomguy says happens but I can give my personal example that its not always the case.

I got married when I was 21 and ten years later my wife who is Irish have three lovely kids. She has chosen to remain Catholic and I have not felt any problems with that. I did however at the outset make know that I would want the kids to be moslem.

BTW in those 10 years many of her friends who painted doomsday stories, including her siater are now divorced.

In my view men use women and some women use men and that cuts across races or cultural/religious groups.

hi-i would just like to say that this post has helped me a lot in dealing with my situation. not only in asian and eastern cultures are there arranged marriages, but some mediterranean cultures as well. i met the man i was supposed to marry when i was 14. i was camping with some friends and he showed up at our campsite. so there we are roasting marshmallows, and this guy comes up to me and says, “hi, i’m you’re future husband”. his father was with him. i was so shocked i didn’t know what to say-i thought it was a joke! so i said yeah right-i’m too crazy and young to get married. apparently this didn’t go over too well, because they left. and it kind of spoiled the rest of my trip. and the worst part was all of my friends there KNEW that my parents had sent them there to meet me, and DIDN“T TELL ME!! and they also knew that he was 10 years older than me!for all i know i could’ve had marshmallow all in my teeth or something. he also started showing up at my dance recitals, cross-country meets, family events/etc., and this made me really nervous and i felt very put “on the spot”. and his father was always with him which made it worse! i know that one time at my regional cross-country meet, i accidentally crossed the finish line one lap too early because i was so nervous that they were there. i wouldn’t have been if he wouldn’t have kept shouting “come on slow poke”, which really threw me off. i didn’t see him again until college. he was living in the same town that my university was in,(i was 19 the next time i saw him) and we ended up working together. well, let me tell you, we did not get along at all! he thought he was a “high roller”, spending daddy’s money on trashy women, and he treated me like sh**. and he literally called me that to my face regularly. then the next minute he would tell me how beautiful i was and how he wanted to live with me someday and have children. yet he was dating three other girls! well, it didn’t work out, but when i told him that i didn’t think that i wanted to marry him or have kids, the next day he said he was going to kill me. i was very afraid to leave my house for 6 months to a year, and people in the community didn’t look at me too kindly. now that things have calmed down a bit, i can look back and say, well, this is america. it’s a free damn country. if i die because of this now, at least i’ll die free. why would i want to live in a $375,000 house if i knew i was going to be killed in it anyway?(this same man also tied his ex-girlfriend to a chair and beat her-great choice mom and dad, thank god my friends did their “research”! saved my life!) now i am 23, and i plan on waiting for the right one to come along. and i won’t let my parents try to find him for me!

TO VICKY,
I sincerely know how you are feeling. You are not being deceived “just a little”. Your boyfriend knows exactly what he is going to do - he will eventually marry a girl/woman chosen by his family for him. He is also deceiving himself that he can remain in a relationship with someone that he loves without hurting either one of you. I am currently in and out of a relationship with an Indian man myself. The first year we spent together was nearly perfect, we also spent all our free time together. The relationship only got better and better until one day he told me he was going to Pakistan to visit a sick relative. He had jokingly mentioned his cousin/uncle was looking for a wife for him. I did ask him before he left if he was going to get a wife. He laughed and told me no. When he returned he told me he was getting married. You can only imaging the heartbreaking pain I experienced. How could an educated, highly intelligent man make such a choice? He has gone through great lengths to get this person to America. He has gone as far as becoming an American citizen and is now working on getting her to the U.S. I continue to see him. He has always told me he loved me. We spend most of our time together when possible. The relationship has gone to almost two years together now. I actually do love this man. I have tried and tried to understand this arrainged marriage concept. I do know that he believes that these marriages have less chance for divorce and that he personally wished to be with someone from his own culture although he has spent the majority of his life in the U.S. Yes, Vicky, I have been deceived, it can probably be compared to the experience a spouse has when one finds out the other has been having an affair. My advise to you is to try to have this man tell you his true intentions. If he plans on following his parentss wishes, then do yourself a favor and get out as soon as possible before you fall more in love. He has no right to continue to lead you on. But if you continue to investigate the nature of Indian men as I have you will find that they do not value women as men of other cultures do. In their culture the woman is to simply act as a servant…run the household, have children and raise them, care for the man. The man that I am with simply needs a “breeder” to produce children although he has indicated he does not plan on participating in the upbringing. What choice does the woman have that he is to marry. She would face being murdered by her family if she did not concent. However, if you have the opportunity to come to America via marriage, if you are from Pakistan, it is as though you have won the lottery. So don’t feel so sorry for her, the ability to bear children has paid off for one young lady. As for me, I plan on moving out of the state away from this man simply because I love him so much - and I believe he actually loves me -to get out of this painful situation. The whole situation has actually caused me to become somewhat prejudiced against Indians. As they come to America, form relationships with American women, then dump them for their traditional marriage. Once again, they have little respect for half of the world’s population (women). Indian men must reallyl love coming to America. It’s alot like coming to someones home and being disrespectful after they have been fed and treated well. Their intentions are not as honorable as they present themselves to be. The divorce rate is probably lower in arrainged marriages because the husband simply abandons the woman when he is unhappy with her and marries someone else or he murders her. The numbers can be just as deceiving. They’re still a primitive culture and the men try to keep it that way because it’s pretty good for them!!!

hi i am nagendro pal a 19 year old man from india. this incident happened to my mom a 36 year old widow 3 months ago and a very scary one and showes why arranged marriage at india is nothing but a farce. around 1 year ago i came to usa for higher studies. my mom a very preety and full body well off woman were all alone at west bengal at that time. when i was here her uncle and his wife tried to get her married with their only son raju, a 45 year old no good bad ass person. mom refused but they planed to forced her into marriage. one night while she was sleeping at her house they bribed the housemaid and entered her house and jumped on her. she was tightely bound hand and feet and was gagged with a rubber ball gag to keep her quiet. she was wearing only her panty and bra but it didnt deter them to carry her away and kidnap her into their house.there she was kept 3 days on her underware and later a bribed prist arranged and performed the marriage ceremony with raju. it was indeed a weird marriage ceremony. mom told me she was tied hand and feet and was gagged with the rubber ball gag to keep her quiet while the prist performed the marriage. after that raju took her mom into his bedroom and at knief point forced to perform sex with him. mom was at that house for 2 month , locked ino a room and ound and gagged wearing only panty and bra. later she find a way to untied her and sliped away and reported the police and call me. i came back and took care of her and now raju is at jail. but what kind of a arranged marriage india has?

Thank you for the information about arranged marriages. I’m doing a report on it, and your research work has helped me out a lot. Plus your views helped me point out some stuff that I want to say out as well. Great weblog!

Wow! There is so much interesting discussion here, but I have still found a few things points about arranged marriages that no-one has yet mentioned.

I’m British born and bred. My friends (even half my family) are all British (white). I have been surrounded all my life by the same romantic images and ideals as every Western child. However, like my parents, and those before them, I am still choosing to have an arranged marriage. Here are some of my reasons:

1. I am a muslim living in the West. My family are practicing muslims. I wish to rear my children in the same loving environment as I myself have experienced. It has been hard enough for me, with two muslim parents, to retain my religious beliefs and practices over the years. I do not wish to attempt raising my own children as muslims without the assistance and encouragement I would receive from a muslim partner.

2. Arranged marriages in Islam involve both the seeking and approval of a potential partner by a child’s parents, and the agreement of both children* (male and female) to marry. Over and beyond the decision being made by child and parents there is a spiritual aspect: prayers to God seeking guidnace and blessings in maing a decision, and continued prayers after the decision has been made. After all, no relationship is easy to maintain!

3. Arranged marriages are approached in an almost back-to-front way (cf. love marriages). First, a child and his/her parents assess the suitability and compatibility of the two families and the two children. In liberal homes, the children* have the opportunity to speak with one another openly and honestly about their views and goals. After all important issues have been discussed, a decision is made. When you have agreed on the bigger picture, all the little things you dislike about each other can be worked around. Having created a ‘safe’ environment through the objective decsion-making process, the relationship is free to flourish. The blinding (rose-tinted) effects of emotion, hormones and biology are no longer risk factors for hurt, but wonderful mechanisms that enable the relationship to be fresh and exciting.

*Please note, by child I am referring to males and females of marriageable age. Some of you have spoken of marriages between children and older men - personally I belive this should not be permitted in Islam since such young children are unable to give valid consent for the marriage.

This is an essay that I wrote for my class, I believe that it has much to do with this topic……Gaurav Kumar
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The divorce rate in United States is about fifty percent which is primarily due to “non-arranged” or love marriages. Arranged marriages have been successfully happening in ancient countries such as Japan or India. Recently has the idea of love marriges evolved, and it exists primarily in the Western society. Opponents usually oppose arranged marriages due to supressivity factors, however there are more positive aspects to arranged marriages then most people think.

In arranged marriages, both partners grow to respect and love each other. This is the case in many countries such as India, Pakistan and Japan. Most marriages are arranged by the parents without the consent of the couple. And in most situations the couples do not even know each other and have never really met. Advirsaries may oppose this type of relationship, however this is the key to a healthy relationship. Love marriages primarily focus more on the physical aspects of the relationships, and are thus obsessed with love, sex, and beauty. In arranged marriages these three factors are not even considered, and love grows as time progresses because their relationship is not strongly based on physical attraction. This in turn leads to divorce rates below the average divorce rates in love marriages.

Divorce rates are also significantly lower in arranged marriages than they are in love marriages. People who base their marriage on the three factors are most likely to divorce as soon as their spouse becomes unattractive or just “boring”. Since arranged marriage is not based on these factors, there is a better probability that divorce will not be limited to physical appearance or sexaul performance. Antagonists might argue that there are abusive husbands in arranged marriages and women do not have a voice, however that is not true due to the fact that not everyone is abusive, and in today’s society more and more women are able to confendientially come forth and report these abusive claims. It is better to divorce with a ligitimate reason, then it is to divorce based on inane reasons. The decisions of parents can prevent all of this from ever occuring.

Who else knows their child best, other then a parent? No one expept the child himself. When it comes to choices and decisions, teenagers and young adults are amongst those who are likely to make the wrong ones. It is evident all around us because it is present in the media everyday. This case also applies to those who approach an age where they are likely to be married and make an important decision which will heavily impact the rest of thir life, and parents are the ones who should choose whats best for their child; as they do in arranged marriages. Parents seek a bride or a groom for their child in arranged mariages and they choose the person who will best fit their child’s needs and fulfill their wishes. True, that someone is going to be married is capable of making their own decisions, however this decision should be left to the people who brought them into this world. To those who raised them for over twenty years and provided them with necessities; who know what is best for their child. A marriage should involve parents, and arranged marriges assure that involvement.

Arranged marriges are very controversial, but there are many examples throughout the world that indicate that they are successful. People do not marry based on just primarily factors and consequently divorce rates are considerably lower. And they involve the most important people in the world to an individual. Clearly there are many benefits to arranged marriages then there are downfalls. Today’s world is full of sex and lust, and arranged marriages portray that through it all there is still the sense of decensy and respect. The more the arranged marriges, the merrier the world.
-Gaurav Kumar 10/4/04

I like arrange marriages are not good because you should be able to choose who you marry and children with.

hello

i am an 18 middle eastern girl from the bay area. i have lived my whole life here and have seen and missed out on alot of what other girls my age are able to do. this summer my marriage was arranged to someone in another country and i flew over to meet him. although i did not meet him myself and fall in love with him on my own, i feel like the connection between me and him is just as strong and intimate as any love marriage. after getting to know him, i appreciated the fact that i was not allowed to participate in any of the activities i saw other girls of my age doing. my mom and dad always kept me away from those things and i appreciate it now more than ever. i went into my inlaws house repected and gave my parents high honor by decently leaving my home and entering into my inlaws home, completely saved for my husband. the love that i feel towards my husband is as great or maybe even greater than any love marriage. i not only married my husband but also marriedhis whole family and brought two families together. to me the best way of marriage is arranged marriage because our relationship is strong, intimate, passionate and will always remain stable because a marriage with an entire family requires more than just irreconciable differences to fall apart.

you all suck kinda a lil no alot but u know its all good just get a life then maybe we can get along. ya heard?

I’m very excited when knowing this information. I hope that eveybody will sympathize whit the people here.

I am completly for arranged marrige. It makes much more sence to me. I have been married myself that way. It has been 7 ya=ears since then and I appreciate more and more every day. I see so many girls my age that haven’t done anything purposefull in their life. They all consider getting drunk and high is the best way to be happy, and what happens later… They have couple kids and all of them from different parents, no connection between each other. That’s the problem in western countries, there is no connection, love or respect to parents or kids (between each other), so they grow up to be just two people that once lived under one roof. I am not saying that all of them are like that but the majority is.
It has been said above that in Islam they have two have intercourse with each other the first night after they get married, but it is completly wrong. Everything is done within the family to make sure the newly married couple spends as much time as possible with each other. They are not allowed to be outside their house after 6 PM for fourty days, and it is to insure that they spend more time with each other. So there is always time to get to know each other.
I love my husband, and trust me we are even more inlove and passionate to each other with every day that passes by.

Whats this shit about not being allowed out after 6pm for 40 days? Do you honestly believe that’s an Islamic rule - like they had watches in Arabia?? When I get married I intend to continue having a busy social life with and without hubby in tow! Thank goodness I dont believe in your rule.

This is in reply to the poster who felt they were decieved by their Indian boyfriend. Well I’m in the other side of the situation. I’m an Indian guy and been having a relationship with a non-indian gal. But the difference is I’ve kept her informed on the arranged marriage situation. But she still doesn’t understand it and because she loves me, is not willing to accept it. So I am put in a situation were I have to make her accept the reality and bring her to tears or take it one day at a time and live in a illusionary world were we think we can work it out. The reality is there is incredible pressure on single indian men and women to do an arraigned marriage. The biggest factor is the parents of course. The funny thing is that parents who left India long while back can be more persistant about arrainged marriages than those in India. I belive that is because their perceptions of societal expectations have frozen in time when they left India. They are living in the past. I know more Indian guys who married non-indian girls that have parents in India than not. I’ve met their parents and they are confortable with the relationship.

I’d like to respond to Gaurav Kumar (04/10/2004) who wrote that no-one knows the child better than the parent. This might be true when you are talking about a child aged under 16, but I’m 23 and I feel my parents barely understand me these days. Parents, just like other people become more restricted and narrow minded as they age. I dont feel like mine could open their minds enough to understand my worries and difficulties because their priorities are so different to what mine currently are. My parents may well know what’s best for me when I am 35, but that means 10 yrs of living with someone who doesnt fulfils the criteria I have aged 25-35! There are so many things young people cant possibly discuss with their parents. In this case, they turn to their friends who are dealing with the same issues (not even necessarily problems, just thoughts). I have no problem with arranged marriage - I only wish that you could put your best friend on the jugding panel too!

i think arranged marriages are wrong.your not giving the people the life they deserve, they have to stay married to somebody they barely know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i dont think that peoples marriage should be arranged because they dont love them and they might not get on and people may not fill right with them

Arranged marriages “work” because in cultures where arranged marriage is the norm, there are no other options!
I grew up in India. Even a phone call with a male voice threw suspicious glances from family members.
Now, I am a lawyer, in New York, and things are not much better.
My parents had an arranged marriage. I have nothing to rile, rant and rave against it. Or for it.
If your culture doesn’t let you date or hang out with the opposite sex, then it’s the only way to get some.
I blog on my possible arranged marriage on www.arrangeme.blogspot.com

I was hoping to get some help. My fiance’ is from Kenya. I’m from USA. When he told his parents we were getting married, they arranged for him to mary someone else and told him he had to come home. They sent the girl to the states for him to see. I don’t know what to do we both love each other, can someone give me any advice?

Dear ladies,

I am about to lose a very beautiful westernized Indian man to an ‘arranged marriage’. He lied to me about his age and his prospects in order to secure a relationship with me. After I questioned him about his freedom and we made love he told me the truth - I was extremely mad at him for I would not have proceeded if I had known the facts … . I am much older than he is and more experinced in life and no doubt he wanted me at any price… so he lied. He gave me his virginity at thirty years of age and I gave him my love. We had intense intimacy and many profound experiences.

There is the outer and inner marriage. There is one area where the greatest secrets are kept - the bedroom. This is the place of truth for all couples that no one can access - a sacred place - that not even the parents can access. I am sure what he and I shared will never be matched again in either of our lives. Nevertheless, in two days he will be gone to an arranged marriage in India - to marry someone he does not know and to some one he is not sure he will be compatiable with - especially in the bedroom which I know is of great importance to him for he is love-hungry. I am sure that she will not enjoy him. I do not see good things for her because he is not yet experienced enough to know how to give pleasure to a young inexperienced woman and I foresee that his discontent with her rejections will become buried and channelled into more smoking, more stress and anxiety. My repsonse to his bad news and the desception - apart from deep heart-ache - was to ask him to ask his father what it was like to be married to a ‘frigid’ woman all those years. If his Indian father was happy with that and a meddlesome domineering disontent cold Indian woman then I will be happy for my lover. Chances are that he will repeat the errors his father.

I am a western Christian woman with the beliefs and ideals of angels. I have read all your comments and tragedies with great interest but still feel hollow and sad. Love conquers all - so I believe. But to conquer one must have great endurance and courage … few of us have this rare gift. It is easy to go through life without testing the soul. It is easy to follow tradition. Most of the world lacks courage and so there will always be arranged marriages. What I have concluded from my observations is that Indian, Middle Eastern and Asian men think Western women are filthy or impure. This is a fact. So we have little chance of out-classing any tradition unless we become desirable and advantageous to the other culture - this requires money, power, status and prestige etc… I am an educated woman with some social prestige but I still do not see my lover finding courage to overcome his strong mother or his sister or the constraints of the Indian system into which he was born, no matter how western he may appear to be. I saw him lament at the loss of freedom. But as a married man he will also be free from the relentless 24-hour-watch of his family who dogger and pester him to do their will. I also see his ‘winging woman’ of a brother-in-law wants to make my lover as miserable as he is - I do not see true happiness just acceptance.

I am powerless. The only advice I can offer to Western women is to lift their game and make any man earn her love and her attention. Test him, screen him and raise the standards. The Anglo race has a tough time in the centuries ahead. I foresee that the fair haired race could become extinct as each Indian and Asian family etc., uses the system in Europe, Australia and Amercia to import family members through the back-door of arranged marriages and swamp the world with its culture. For every imported bride in the Western World there are at least four to five family members from another culture getting into the country. For every Western man who marries an Indian woman there are four or five Indian family members trying to get into the country. The truth is, they want what we have.They want to leave their own land full of poverty and mismanagement and invade ours - I see my lover as a co-conspirator in the plot.

I probably will have little to do with him in the future although there is talk of a ‘lifelong’ friendship. I said to him - ‘One has to earn friendship for it is filled with honour.’ I said that I did not think he knew how to be my friend. So darlings, I am miserable, lonely and decieved, but I had a wonderful encounter with a wonderful man which left me enriched. My destiny will be clearer in the next month - with or without him. This is the fourth woman he has considered for marriage. I know he will not marry me. My future at least is clear here.

J

Here I am a non-Indian guy who is in a loving relationship with a beautiful intelligent Indian girl. She is the daughter of a Hindu priest and has been groomed her entire life to be someone’s wife. Our relationship consists mainly of hours and hours talking on the phone at night when her parents think that she is asleep. We see each other at work for a few moments every few days. We have managed to find 4 or 5 hours a week to be together in person mainly out of our area because to be seen together would be the end for her. Her parents have denied her the opportunity to become a US citizen so that they can threaten her with deportation to India if ever something like what is happening with me was discovered. We both believe strongly against premarital sex and have not gone down that road, so the typical arguments against a purely sexually motivated love relationship are not valid (although it disgusts me to think of her giving that gift to a stranger instead of to each other). We have been together long enough to know that we do not want to be with any other person. In spite of all of this she is so close to her family. With her father in such a public position there is no way that he would ever accept her choosing her own husband. Never would he accept a non-Hindu and definitely not a non-Indian. We dream of being together and having a life full of love and family, but it seems as if this is not to be. So she is faced with a horrible choice: her family or me. To choose her family means a life married to a man that she does not know or love, knowing all the time that the man she does is still waiting for her. To choose me is to alienate herself from her family, but if the choice was us not a day would go by that I would not pursue a relationship with them. In a thought that is completely not Indian, I hope beyond hope that if they truly love her they will accept us and keep her. She is so giving and self sacrificing that she will likely give up all that matters to her in our relationship to follow the wishes of her parents, who coincidentally will not have to be forced into a marriage with a stranger, be forced to give themselves to this stranger physically, mentally and emotionally, to be forced to have children that will be raised in a family where their mother has sacrificed her independence, her ambitions and her emotions to please parents that are not willing to change their ways to see their daughter happy with the person that she loves. I am trying to understand, and I am living each day trying to express my love to her in a way that will make it possible that there will be a choice and that she can choose us. Arraigned marriage, forced pairing, does affect people negatively by taking away all the freedom and choice that makes us different from plants. It subjects a girl to a life that is not hers, will rob me of the only person in the world that I have ever or will ever love, will rob her future husband of the gift of her entire heart, will rob her parents of ever having a relationship with their daughter where she does not secretly or overtly resent the decision that they have made for her, will keep her children from knowing the joy of being raised by parents that model the ultimate picture of devotion and love. So tell me that this is right and I will never believe for a moment that that is the truth.

I’ve been born in England