Procrastination

Yes, that would be much more convincing.

Yahya also does political commentary. He has websites up called islamdenouncesterrorism.com and islamdenouncesantisemitism.com

He also posts a lot of articles to a site called mediamonitors.net some of which are about interfaith issues and some about modern philosophical issues (of which he uses Darwinism as a prime example). He also has some articles about Freemasons (another popular topic among some Muslims and one that I think is total bunkum).

For criticism of modern Western philosophy I would much rather read Seyyed Hossein Nasr.

Zack, I would think that an enlightened dude like you would realize that a person doesn’t need a certified piece of paper to have an opinion. Yes, the man majored in unrelated fields, but that in itself should not be your only reason to render his views invalid. Read what he says, see if you can agree.

I have no idea what that whole Freemason thing is about. I’m wary of conspiracies. The way I figure, there are enough unsheathed evils out there for me to go out and seek the possibly hidden ones.

But yeh, a man having a few unsound thoughts doesn’t make the sound ones null and void. If that were the case, none of us would have any right to talk about anything at all. Really, what do we know for certain anyways?

Really, what do we know for certain anyways?

god exists ;)

God exist!!!!!harun yahya made me realise that to a degree of absolute certainty!!!!never have been so proud to be a muslim.knowledge is from Allah ,not from a certified piece of paper huh.by the way most of the prophets were sheperds and carpenters ,remember..it doesnt make them less a thinker right!!!

well if we were to go back,during prophets time,he was mocked because the pagans and Jewish thought that he was incapable of carrying those devine message simply because of him not being a great “poet” or a somebody at that time,right.
i think what Allah wants us to learn is to be extremely humble,for without humility we might post prejudice and failing to grab the essential message.and by the way ..what have we done to help the muslim ummah??

Darwin himself didnt do Biology when he came up with the whole evolution theory , rather he was an amateur travelling and working for someone at that time.

ZACK KONCEPTS ARE ALL AROUND YOU AND SO ARE THE FACTS YOU CHOSE.ITS EITHER GOD CREATED US OR WE ALL COME FROM A SINGLE ATOM.AND BELIVE ME I DID NOT EVOLUTIONIZ FROM A MONKEY. ONLY FOOLS AND UGLY CUNTS BELIVE THAT BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY THING WHICH LOOKS LIKE THEM JUST COMPARE DARWINS FACE TO THE FACE OF A GURILLA AND U WILL KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

WELL ZACK IM NOT SHOUTING AND WHY WHOULD GOD CREATE US 4RM A MONKEY AND THEN FROM A SINGLE ATOM? HAVE U EVER READ A HARUN YAHYA BOOK? IF U HAVE THEN U WILL SURELY KNOW THAT HE KNOWS WAT HIS TALKIN ABOUT. AND NEXT TIME WATCH WHO U R WARNIN COZ THI IS A GOOD DEBATE SITE AND I DONT WANA END UP HACKHIN IT KAPISH?

ZACK GOD HAS TO SAY BE AND IT BECOMSE U GET ME? SO IF IDIOTS LIKE DARWIN BELEIVE WE COME 4RM SINGLE ATOMS AND MONKEYS THEN MAYBE U WHOULD LIKE TO KEEP UR THIERYZ TO UR SELFS COZ I AINT RELATED TO NO MONKEYS.

ZACK HARUN YAHYA IS LIKE MANY OF THE GREAT ISLAMIC SCHOLARS,ASTRONEMERS,INVENTERS AND SCIENCETISTS WHO SINCE THE DAWN OF ISLAM HAVE BEEN TELLING US WHAT IS INSIDE US (IT WAS A MUSLIM DOCTOR WHO MADE THE FIRST CORECT DIAGRAM OF THE HUMAN BODY)TO THE BIRTH OF STARS AND THEY DID ALL THIS BY SIMPLY STUDYING THE QURAN. AND ZACK I WARNED U.

you’re right, zack. God is capable of doing anything including the law of gravity, bu he’s the absolute decision maker. No body tells Him what to do. If He didn’t have created the law of gravity,then He would have created another sceintific law to support the living things and us. It is easy for Him. Still men would have to learn scientifically the law substituting the law of gravity if had made one. In muslim world, all scientific facts, theories and laws we’ve learnt and we will learn are known as scientific united sets of system of the universe. This what enables you to learn because they are immutable. What would happen if the law you’ve learnt and written today changed in the following day, and the next, next, following days? Our mothers gave a birth a human, the next pregnancy they gave a birth a goat, then monkey, then snack? Then, there wouldn’t have been science and theories and laws.

The inexistence of evolution will show us that naturally, our great grandchildren will never be other creatures in the next millions of years, more handsome? well… maybe :)

Furthermore, God has set up another set for us, which we will never learn, that is, heaven, the world after our ressurection.

;) After all, it is us who are spoiled by Him because He knows how greedy we are for science and knowledge.

Well Zack, it is nice to know other argument like yours, but one thing I’m sure of, the nature of knowledge is knowing that we know nothing, right? Peace..

Evolution is false. Anybody with a grain of common sense will realise this.

An interesting thing about evolution. The Western mind easily accepts it now but at the same time the Western logical tradition also professes to believe that the saying post hoc ergo propter hoc (just because A happened before B, it does not mean that A was the cause of B) is false.

Every person who posted messages to this site I just want you to visit these sites: Harun Yahya
Evolution Deceit
You all probably will find all the answers in these sites.

Harun Yahya is a phenomenon like Darwin was one. The difference is that Harun appears with all his faith and knowledge, to be a brilliant peaople not always have to gain educational degree (Don’t narrow down your view, guys); while Darwin came up with his knowledge with his hesitation in it, secularism is one of hesitation built by “darkness of mind”. So why should we spread our hatred to him who wants to offer a clearer view of something? Harun Yahya is clear and clean enough for us to believe :)
I can’t agree more

Well, I did Biology (+ theory of evolution)and actually doing a Master Degree in Applied Science. I read the comments. I am not for or against whatever. I just wanna ask one thing: Can you Zack tell me then how could then the species that derived for the process of evolution could survive( though we have no proof of such intermediate types) bearing in mind that conditions that prevailed during that time too SHOULD have undergone some changes??? Examples would be from a phase of aquatic animals to land mammals??
Thanks…

Maybe he did not studied it at school but he has learnt it indirectly. We don’t need a degree paper to certify what we know.

What I wanted you to know is that just try to think over what I asked you last time. One basic thing in the theory of evolution is the phases where we supposedly have moved from aquatic life to earthly living. Imagine for some moments how could it possible? What about the food web? Transformation in the body would be drastic as well as conditions in the atmosphere to allow this change? Please think over it Zack. I just want you people to use your mind. I’m not saying anything about faith? From a rational point of view. Please Zack if there’s a way we can discuss more on these issues, U have my email ad.

Thanks…

Zack, your main argument here is mostly on the thermodynamics misinterpretation you claimed that Harun Yahya has made.
How about the other main evolution ideas..
Based on your argument, I don’t think you have gone through the evolution books written by Harun Yahya…
There is one thing I have to agree with you…Harun Yahya does stress on social Darwinism..But what is wrong with that…He does have his points doesn’t he…Zack, why dont you read on his facts part rgarding evolution…
It does not matter even if you are gardener….As long as you have the facts and prove to say something , it is still acceptable.Of course, you need the knowledge to do that…Harun Yahya has that knowledge…
I don’t want to brag, Alhamdullillah, I am a second year medical student…I study human anatomy, embryology, microbiology and many others…I have to say that Harun Yahya is correct in every field and his claims are valid and scientifically correct.
Zack, excuse me for saying this..
you are just a typical materialist…

Zack, your main argument here is mostly on the thermodynamics misinterpretation you claimed that Harun Yahya has made.
How about the other main evolution ideas..
Based on your argument, I don’t think you have gone through the evolution books written by Harun Yahya…
There is one thing I have to agree with you…Harun Yahya does stress on social Darwinism..But what is wrong with that…He does have his points doesn’t he…Zack, why dont you read on his facts part rgarding evolution…
It does not matter even if you are gardener….As long as you have the facts and prove to say something , it is still acceptable.Of course, you need the knowledge to do that…Harun Yahya has that knowledge…
I don’t want to brag, Alhamdullillah, I am a second year medical student…I study human anatomy, embryology, microbiology and many others…I have to say that Harun Yahya is correct in every field and his claims are valid and scientifically correct.
Zack, excuse me for saying this..
you are just a typical materialist…

zack..have u even read the Quran?i think u should thoroughly,humbly read the Quran first..coz the tone of your speech is very similar to the ignorant as opposed to the believers…all that Harun Yahya wants to do is bringing faith back to to much needed society,why r we even arguing .materialism is definitely an indoctrination which has sway millions of souls..but as alwasy the truth will prevail as Allah has promised..ALLAHUAKBAR,may Allah lead us all to the right path.

You know, Noam Chomsky is an excellent critic of US foreign policy. He’s authored many books, and is considered an expert. However, he is only a PhD in Linguistics, of which he pioneered the field. That doesn’t make him less qualified, I know Political Science professors who use him as a major source.

Islam is hijacked by ignorant and narrow mind people. I wonder what happened to all the mathematicians and philosophers who used to belong to this religion.

Ref: see

http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Indexes/Arabs.html

Islam is popular once because its tolerance for other religions and no one forcefully convert them. Now all the decent people either keep shut or gradually converting to other tolerable religions. How come we had so many Muslim scientists once? Now we don’t care about science, mathematics or philosophy. If some one says some thing it is always against the Islam or Koran. To me it looks that most Muslims care about what their woman are wearing or what others are doing irrespective to what are their obligations to the society.

Abdul Rashid, why are you wasting your money and time at medical school. Just pray for miracle for everyone’s health.

Fatin there is a world outside religion. If you see interprets every thing through Koran or religion, such as don’t believing in evolution then you mustn’t be using computer. As it is made possible by the advances in science.

Who created the universe? Some say It came from the big bang. possible. But ask them who created the prime matter for the big bang? Then Some ask who created God? Why is it so hard to understand that He is Eternal? Try to count 1,2 million, zillion, where does it stop? Or try to count to minus infinite… it doesnt have a beginning nor an end, even though it is easy to count you just know that you cant reach any limit of infinite. Then how come the universe is in wonderful order of orbiting stars and planets ? Some say everything was created by chance… sincerely now, whats the possibility that the universe was created from nothing, with no reason, in excellent order ? And besides all people die, (with the probability of 1). And also please read the Kuran, as I read the Bible, Bhagarvad Ghita, Nietzsche and such…

Who created the universe? Some say It came from the big bang. possible. But ask them who created the prime matter for the big bang? Then Some ask who created God? Why is it so hard to understand that He is Eternal? Try to count 1,2 million, zillion, where does it stop? Or try to count to minus infinite… it doesnt have a beginning nor an end, even though it is easy to count you just know that you cant reach any limit of infinite. Then how come the universe is in wonderful order of orbiting stars and planets ? Some say everything was created by chance… sincerely now, whats the possibility that the universe was created from nothing, with no reason, in excellent order ? And besides all people die, (with the probability of 1). And also please read the Kuran, as I read the Bible, Bhagarvad Ghita, Nietzsche and such…

Who created the universe? Some say It came from the big bang. possible. But ask them who created the prime matter for the big bang? Then Some ask who created God? Why is it so hard to understand that He is Eternal? Try to count 1,2 million, zillion, where does it stop? Or try to count to minus infinite… it doesnt have a beginning nor an end, even though it is easy to count you just know that you cant reach any limit of infinite. Then how come the universe is in wonderful order of orbiting stars and planets ? Some say everything was created by chance… sincerely now, whats the possibility that the universe was created from nothing, with no reason, in excellent order ? And besides all people die, (with the probability of 1). And also please read the Kuran, as I read the Bible, Bhagarvad Ghita, Nietzsche and such…

I apologize for the triple post, my internet explorer encountered some problems, and I wanted to make a correction, so that there be no misunderstanding, “…what is the possibility that the universe created itself from nothing, for no reason…”

Peace. I of course agree that science is not contradictory to the existence of God, in fact science is supposed to discover the truth. If God exists, and if He revealed us the holy book Kuran, and if He mentioned there that people were created from Adam and Eve(that is from two humans), then the theory of humans evolving from monkeys is contrary to what He revealed(which either implies that it is not true what is in the holy book or Darwins theory is not true). Thats why muslims do not believe in Darwins theory. Therefore it would be contradictory for me to believe in evolution from monkeys. As for the big bang, I dont have a reason to deny it, only I am against the illogical presumption “big bang is the beginning therefore no God”. It is illogical because according to the laws of physics something can not come from nothing (meaning that) there is “someone” outside the universe with its laws who created it all. All in all, I believe science should be developed, but theories which from the beginning deny Gods word are limited. The first words of the Kuran revealed to the last messenger Mohammad(peace be upon him) were “Read in the name of your Lord” The word ikra in arabic(in which the Kuran was revealed) means read, learn. Therefore, the first order from God was to increase knowledge but in His name only. I think a direct chat would allow me to express more ideas that I have but which I cannot express in these posts.

Say: ‘Do you reject Him Who created the earth in two days, and make others equal to Him? That is the Lord of all the worlds.’ He placed firmly embedded mountains on it, towering over it, and blessed it and measured out its nourishment in it, laid out for those who seek it — all in four days. Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, ‘Come willingly or unwillingly.’ They both said, ‘We come willingly.’ In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate. We adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and guarded it. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. (Surah Fussilat: 9-12)

Pls read the verses with n open mind…

It is He who sent down the Book to you from Him: verses containing clear judgements — they are the core of the Book — and others which are open to interpretation. Those with deviation in their hearts follow what is open to interpretation in it, desiring conflict, seeking its inner meaning. No one knows its inner meaning but God. Those firmly rooted in knowledge say, ‘We have faith in it. All of it is from our Lord.’ But only people of intelligence pay heed. (Surat Al ‘Imran: 7)

I will divert from My Signs all those who are arrogant in the earth without any right. If they see every Sign, they will not believe in it. If they see the way of right guidance, they will not take it as a way. But if they see the way of error, they will take that as a way. That is because they denied Our Signs and paid no attention to them. (Surat al-A’raf: 146)

Who could do greater wrong than someone who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord and then turns away from them, forgetting all that he has done before? We have placed covers on their hearts, preventing them from understanding it, and heaviness in their ears. Though you call them to guidance, they will nonetheless never be guided. (Surat al-Kahf: 57)

Zack… i’m sorry for taking so much space… but those passages above are from THE ALMIGHTY HIMSELF… it is for MANKIND not for muslims only… i just wanna share these beautiful verses with u… May Allah Guide U…

The Quran is not only a book of morality.The Quran is a MANUAL for LIFE. It is a book revealed to MANKIND about life including science n its laws,philosophy,history,social studies n many more-most important above all the Quran reveals to mankind the EXISTENCE of GOD n His Attributes.

(azeem: What exactly is your point? Those Quranic verses, expect for the first one, are not pertinent to the discussion at all.)

i would like to emphasize the first verse of the first passage to u-Say: ‘Do you reject Him Who created the earth in two days, and make others equal to Him?

There is no such thing as theory of evolution.NOTHING in this world is coincidental.Everything happens for a reason.In the above verse God asks mankind(including his denial of God’s existence) to reflect on His Omnipotence as to how the earth was created in only two days(pls bear in mind if He WILLs it could be much faster).

REad n reflect on the last verse-That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.

A DECREE from the Almighty here means the LAW set up by Him.Scientific law of how the earth, the mountains etc… was Created.The verse further states the All-Knowing-let’s face it Zack… that knowledge itself is limitless n infinite.You know about Thermodynamics? But how much do u really know? God Knows Everything!(He also knows why u set up this website!)

The 2nd passage that i posted refers to a group of people like u Zack.

God Himself explains-Those with deviation in their hearts follow what is open to interpretation in it, desiring conflict, seeking its inner meaning. No one knows its inner meaning but God.

Have u ever actually ask urself that whatever u or anyone in the world for that matter learned so far be it science or rather Thermodynamics etc… to this very moment might have JUST ONLY skirted around the surface of a more profound knowledge that you will NEVER know? i think u only desire conflict with “Harun Yahya n his ilk”… the truth is u ONLY major in Thermodynamics n…..? oh nvm….

The 3rd passage is a WARNING from the AlMighty.Pls read it over n over again… n of course REFLECT.

I will divert from My Signs all those who are arrogant in the earth without any right. If they see every Sign, they will not believe in it. If they see the way of right guidance, they will not take it as a way. But if they see the way of error, they will take that as a way. That is because they denied Our Signs and paid no attention to them. (Surat al-A’raf: 146)

The 4th passage is for my muslim brothers n sisters alike who tried their best to help you understand.God explains:

Who could do greater wrong than someone who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord and then turns away from them, forgetting all that he has done before? We have placed covers on their hearts, preventing them from understanding it, and heaviness in their ears. Though you call them to guidance, they will nonetheless never be guided. (Surat al-Kahf: 57)

So Zack… all those above are exactly my point… May Allah Guide U n PEACE!

- some verses from the Qur’an read:
“Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then We clove them asunder, and made from water every living thing? Will they not then believe?” (Surah al-Anbiya 21:30)
- “God is the one who created the heavens, the earth and what is between them…”Qur’an, 25:59
- “I built the heaven with power and it is I, who am expanding it.” Qur’an,51:47
- “O assembly of Jinns and men, if you can penetrate the regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate them! You will not penetrate them except with authority.”Qur’an,55:33
- “(God is the One who) sent down rain from the sky and with it brought forth a variety of plants in pairs.” Qur’an, 20:53
- “… and of all fruits (God) placed (on the earth) two pairs.” Qur’an, 13:3
- “Verily, I created humankind from a small quantity of mingled fluids.” Qur’an, 76:2
- “Then He made [ man’s ] offspring from the essence of a despised fluid.” Qur’an, 32:8
- “God fashioned humans from a clinging entity.” Qur’an, 96:2
- “I fashioned the clinging entity into a chewed lump of flesh and I fashioned the chewed flesh into bones and I clothed the bones with intact flesh.” Qur’an, 23:14
How could have someone know these things 1400 years ago? I remind you that these verses can be found in a 1000 or more year old Quran as well as in any that muslims have at home. There are more such verses in the Quran (one more reason to look in it). In fact the Quran recommends that those who doubt it try to find any contradictions in it…

If science tends to find te truth, and the Quran claims that it is the truth with such arguments, shouldnt scientists look what it has to say? I remind you that Nobel prize winners such as, Maurice Baccuale, AbdulKarim, stated that the Quran was true about many top scientific discoveries which were found only in the last three centuries!
If the Quran for eg states that there are seven heavens(nowadays many scientists believe that there is nothing beyond this universe(hence the word -universe)), wouldnt it be recommendable for scientists to look into the possibility of more heavens?
I would just like you to give me your opinion on the verses I wrote in my previous post, and then Im out of the discussion.

harun is a intelligent man he made sense of everything that people probably think about in their life.i always though about this world and qeustioned my self ‘on how great and beautiful this world is and this world COULD NOT of been created by its own there must a great power behind it and that is ‘GOD’. I mean earth is created so perfertly that people don’t insight beyond to think how could all living and nonliving came to be thats the great power of something beyond our imagination. If humans created machines who created us that is a qeustion to every human being. Harun has helped me to understand even greater creations by ‘GOD’. THANKS TO HIM I CAN EXPLAIN ALL THESE THINKS TO OTHER PEOPLE WITH MORE COMFIDENCE.

now to evolution

ALL of us believe that there is atoms then there would be molecules. All of us believe that there is molecules then there would be cells.If theres cells then theres tissues. If theres tissues then theres organs. if theres organs then theres living things like us. If theres living things then there should be a large living area for living things which is a planet. if there is planet then there should be star if there is star or stars then there should be galaxies. if there is galaxies then there should a universe. if all these great things have greater power then there is a greatest power of all ‘GOD’. HE IS THE START AND END THERE IS NOTHING GREATER THEN HE WHO CONTROLS ALL THESE THINGS. EVOLUTION IS A THOERY THAT OUR MINDS CREATED BUT WHO CREATED OUR MIND.

if evolution of men is true (of course not)why all of these people don’t go into another evolution?I mean that for ages people haven’t changed.In other words,when we look the pictures of old ages people on the wall of the historical places,I don’t see any differences from these day’s people.I am sure that Darwinizm is absolutely WRONG.

As I see Zack you are a believer of Darwinizm evolutıon.And I want to say something about that.If you believe ALLAH,you can not admit evolution.If you admit evolution,you can go out of ISLAM.Because ALLAH created Adam and Eve.They didn’t come from a kind of monkey.So I mean that a Muslim can not admit any kind of mankind evolution. May Allah help you,me and all of the people who are Muslims or not.
If you supplicate ALLAH willingly,İNŞALLAH He admit your supplication.

as salam ‘alaikum

Allah Subhanahuu orders us in His Eternal word Al Qur’an al Hakeem that every many should deep think.

Deep thinking is an order to us….

Harun Yahya deep thinks

and Allah knows Best and His (j) Nabi (saas) knows Best

While we haven’t seen any speciation among humans, we have observed it in other species. Also, we have observed genetic differences among different human populations and hence microevolution.

Posted by: Zack

Yet, Zack, you are speaking of Macroevolution… a theory which has NEVER been proven… and the excuse used by evolutionists is that the process takes too long to be observed in a lab… There are way too many holes in macroevolution to even be considered a real scientific theory anymore… But, because of aethiest scientific “scholars”, Macroevolution remains a theory. I would love to see you provide ample evidence of its existence which you have not done yet on this forum. You have only succeeded in bashing Harun Yahya’s books.

Is God not capable of creating man and other species seperately? I have found that most evolutionists are atheists and use the evolution argument as a way of explaining how the world came to be… But they are “forced” to be evolutionists only because they reject God… knowing fully well of the silly notion that all things came to be by chance… that all species come from one… Yet, they stick to it because they are bound to it… Evolution has provided them a way out… or so they think…

check this

Zack, as the evolution theory says that every living thing is evolving.That could be true,but why does the monkey is still a monkey after million of years, there are fosil that prove it.since yours shares the same ancestor which carry the same DNA why does after the same evolution they end up living on trees while UR watching a cable tv in U’r house…please explain.

Zack, as the evolution theory says that every living thing is evolving.That could be true,but why does the monkey is still a monkey after million of years, there are fosil that prove it.since yours shares the same ancestor which carry the same DNA why does after the same evolution they end up living on trees while UR watching a cable tv in U’r house…please explain.

Zack, as the evolution theory says that every living thing is evolving.That could be true,but why does the monkey is still a monkey after million of years, there are fosil that prove it.since yours shares the same ancestor which carry the same DNA why does after the same evolution they end up living on trees while UR watching a cable tv in U’r house…please explain.

Perharps their the unfortuned,right Zak…
;0

Perharps their the unfortuned,right Zak…
;0

First of all I was shocked at how much some people now about ISLAM, even though they claim their Muslims. First of all if you’re a Muslim if you have to believe in the Quran. You can’t take what you want and reject whatever you want. SO YOU CAN’T ADMIT EVOLUTION THEORY and BE A MUSLIM AT THE SAME TIME.
I’m inviting everyone to learn more rather than saying “Muslims admit evolution theory too”.
I hope we’re all clear with this.
I think the problem is people just hear smgth from other people and just add 1000 to 1 , and express themselfes as they did research on that. One questions for those who believe in Darwin. Since his life till know did science go on his side or day by day, year by year, did science disapproved his ideas? According to my research science is dissapproving him they by they more.
And yes Quran could be taken as a scientific book, because its a miracle in how some verses talk about the science which was just known last 100years AGO and wasn’t known by GREEKS. Ok so soem of you athiests are going to claim, “ohh this was just written by chance”.
My ponit is not to convert anyone. You could believe in whatever you want, but when it comes to my religion ISLAM, I invite you to read the whole book, and make your own judgements rather talking to really narrow minded muslims or just looking at some terorists who claim their muslims.
And for those who are muslims, don’t try to convert other people, in Quran it gives the message, “Are you going to convert them by forcing?”
Of coarse not, so just follow you’re true path to Allah, or whatever some else wants to call it.

First of all I was shocked at how much some people now about ISLAM, even though they claim their Muslims. First of all if you’re a Muslim if you have to believe in the Quran. You can’t take what you want and reject whatever you want. SO YOU CAN’T ADMIT EVOLUTION THEORY and BE A MUSLIM AT THE SAME TIME.
I’m inviting everyone to learn more rather than saying “Muslims admit evolution theory too”.
I hope we’re all clear with this.
I think the problem is people just hear smgth from other people and just add 1000 to 1 , and express themselfes as they did research on that. One questions for those who believe in Darwin. Since his life till know did science go on his side or day by day, year by year, did science disapproved his ideas? According to my research science is dissapproving him they by they more.
And yes Quran could be taken as a scientific book, because its a miracle in how some verses talk about the science which was just known last 100years AGO and wasn’t known by GREEKS. Ok so soem of you athiests are going to claim, “ohh this was just written by chance”.
My ponit is not to convert anyone. You could believe in whatever you want, but when it comes to my religion ISLAM, I invite you to read the whole book, and make your own judgements rather talking to really narrow minded muslims or just looking at some terorists who claim their muslims.
And for those who are muslims, don’t try to convert other people, in Quran it gives the message, “Are you going to convert them by forcing?”
Of coarse not, so just follow you’re true path to Allah, or whatever some else wants to call it.

I apologize for my vocab. I had to write it so fast as I had limited time.
Hope everyone has a nice day.

P.S: I think the Quran could be taken as a scientific book, because with some scientific knowledge there, it proves that it is a Miracle. As our prohpet didn’t have a miracle like, making a dead person alive, etc.

Ohhh I’m sorry Zack if I have offended you. But if you want to have discussions like this, you should be open minded to everything and you should question things.
Not only did I question other people faith’s more than that I questioned my own faith in the past, rather than (like you) just believeing what I was thaught in a stubborn way.
Please Zack just talk in a logical way, ok? You can’t be a muslim and and believe in Darwin at the same. Of coarse you can’t respond to me because you know you’re wrong, and don’t want to accept it.
But if you have a different definition of being a muslim, like accepting some part of the book, and deny some other part, I would respect your definition, though the definiition will sound funny.But reading the whole book, you’re going to see that its against Darwinism.
So my suggestion for you as a friend, just say you believe in GOD (and thats if you really do), and you don’t believe in religions, ok?
Don’t use our definition (being a muslim) in a wrong way please.
Regards

For ozgur/oscar

Please learn proper English then crtisize others.

Thanks,
Mariam: The subject here isn’t my how much english I know or don’t know.
And Mariam, instead of making comments on my english skills, I invite you to tell me and the other muslims how the Quran could agree with Darwinism?
Zack: Thanks for reminding Mariam that English isn’t my first language. Instead of repeating what I said, why don’t you write your ideas how the Quran could agree with Darwisim by putting facts from the book, as the book is the only fact that we have about Islam?
I’m trying to discuss and exchange ideas with you guys, but if you guys are going to continue to make the subject about “how much english I know”, I’d rather back of as I don’t have time to lose with you talking about my english skills.
To sum up Zack, Please tell how I could be wrong when I said, “The Quran is against Darwinism” (instead of saying “You simply claim that who doesn’t agree with you is outside Islam”, thanks for reminding me, but I know what I’ve said)

P.S: Is there any prerequisite in english (besides knowing basic english) for this discussion, like do we have to have GRE Verbal of 700 at least or smght like that?

hi, im new here. i jst read some of ur msgs about harun yahya + evolution. u r so wrong 2 say dat harun yahya is wrong cos on his website there comments frm other western scientists + they agree with him. so dnt try + make excuses, the Quran is frm God + u shud read harun yahya’s other articles 2. darwin did nothing bt cause trouble. wats this about gravity? God is the CREATER of evryting not u.
also i loved harun yahya’s articles on ‘matter is illusion’ + ‘the importance of conscience’. this man is truly blessed by Allah. inshallah evry1 will realise the truth.

hi, im new here. i jst read some of ur msgs about harun yahya + evolution. u r so wrong 2 say dat harun yahya is wrong cos on his website there comments frm other western scientists + they agree with him. so dnt try + make excuses, the Quran is frm God + u shud read harun yahya’s other articles 2. darwin did nothing bt cause trouble. wats this about gravity? God is the CREATER of evryting not u.
also i loved harun yahya’s articles on ‘matter is illusion’ + ‘the importance of conscience’. this man is truly blessed by Allah. inshallah evry1 will realise the truth.

Angel please ask God these questions for me.

Why there is wine and virgins for men who goes to heaven? What do women got in return or it is presumed no women will be allowed there.

Whoever you are, whatever you think, just keep in mind that you absolutely have to respect each other’s opinions. I do not believe in any god. I’ve seen so much people and children suffering everywhere in the world from violence and disease… Either is a god unable to change this, and why should I believe in him, or he makes it on purpose, and he should be punished for it.

But anyway, if you believe in, I’ll have to respect your opinion.

Wow. I wasted my whole time reading the huge argument, which has taken almost a year, looking at the dates of the comments. All I can say is that God exists. I will address all of your disputes in this one comment.
a. You cannot point your fingers at Muslim terrorists, or arab history as an argument in religion. These are people who you are reflecting on, for the religion comes from the QURAN. Don’t even dare pointing out “smart” people who leave Islam, or “ignorant” people in islame, or base Islam on culture, because Islam is NOT culture. Islam is from the QURAN. That goes for you, especially, Mariam.
b. The Quran can be viewed as either a History or Science book. There is evidence that proves science and history in the Quran. These are miracles from the Quran. Yes, I can see that the Quran is sometimes somewhat “vague” as you say sometimes when issuing scientific miracles.
c. The second law of thermodynamics was NOT completely misinterpreted. Actually, termodynamics was somewhat accurately defined without a complex definition. The second law of thermodynamics is measurement of how much heat as spread from time A to time B. It is true that even photosynthesis is nearly impossible to directly explain using mathematics, physics, and chemistry. Even so, this was only one chapter in Harun’s book. Stop whining. All else in his books are found to be true. Remember that science should used With God. God created Science.
d. God does everything for a reason, and we may not understand him, but surely we shall when we return to him. This life is a Test. A test with a consequence. It’s your choice.
e. The world is a MIRACLE. Harun has written about many of the miracles in the ant and DNA. The origin of the cell is a miracle. Chance is possible, but can you not see the world around you? Look at the trees. Even the trees pray to God. Look at your own HAND. Astronomical amounts of Cells performing so perfectly together in the midst of incredible complexity.
f. Zack, your comments were useful, and I respect your opinion. If you want to be a muslim in whatever way you want, that is fine. As to you, Mariam, stop the degrading comments; they make you look like a moron. Peace.

Harun Yayha is a prolific writer but not a very accurate one. He distorts or misrepresents almost every scientific understanding that I’ve come across in his books. It concerns me that people, particularly children, are being taught lies about the world.

Some examples:

No celestial bodies, including galaxies cross each others paths. (In this one he contradicts himself in two books, saying also that galaxies do pass through each other without any effect on either).

No harmful rays from the sun reach the surface of the Earth. (So I guess sun-tan manufacturers are all conning us.)

The atmosphere prevents any meteors falling to Earth (ignoring the 20 tons of debris that reach the surface of the Earth every day).

Geckos have suckers on their toes.

No robotic hand can or will be able to match the flawless functionality of a human hand.

There are no transitional fossils (lists of these are freely available on the Net).

Animal “designs” are flawless.

Changes within species can occur without genetic change.

All genetic mutations are harmful and caused by external effects.

The universe was formed by lots of substances coming together by chance (from a children’s book).

There is no water on any other planets.

All of these are mistruths. He suggests scientists are lying, for some reason. That is just nonsense. This is a dangerous author intent on keeping people ignorant.

Hi there
I am new to this room and my views on Harun Yahya are generally quite positive. I have read his books to do with matter being an ‘illusion’ (he does elaborate on this further, so don’t take my sentence at point value)and I must say it struck me so much. He grounded what he said on clear scientific theory as well as the Quran itself. I must say he did change my life, because he confirmed really what so many mystics have been saying for thousands of years concerning the universe and one’s relation to it.

Keep up the good work!

Shamsun,

But Harun Yahya distorts science theories to suit his own beliefs, and even tells outright lies about our knowledge of the world and the universe. I gave some examples in my last post, and it is not an exhaustive list. Have you accepted Harun’s interpretation of scientific understandings, without question?

Hi Zack. A friend of mine showed me this interesting blog of yours.
I’m a biology student (currently specializing in genetics of microorganism) and it’s saddening for me that there are people like HY who twisted science and scientific facts for their own needs and personal opinions.
I’m an Indonesian Muslim, I believe in God, and my faith is not troubled by evolution. I’m a moderator for a mailing list called ‘evolusi’ in yahoo. It’s basically a mailing list for the debate of evolution x creationism, and there are lots of interesting debates going on.
Keep on keeping on :)

Mike,
Thanks for your comments, I am sorry I didn’t read your particular section because I had just browsed through some of the messages as a newcomer. As an afterthought, since I am assuming you have more knowledge of science than me, have you read HY books ‘Matter: Another Name for Illusion’. The reason why I ask is because he presents quite a profound view concerning our perception the world, and though he uses scientific theories, I wanted to know in your opinion does that book stand up?

But thanks for your comments, I can see now reading most of the messages here, how a lot of people are quite apprehensive about Harun Yahya. But still his viewes on the ‘illusion’ of matter are very interesting for me. Could you elaborate further on them?

shamsun

One of Harun’s books that deals with atheism, creation, and more, invites your comments. It has been placed online in Wiki format. You can edit the book to add your comments. Please see:
Allah Is Known Through Reason.

I like his introduction to this book:

To see the fact of Creation, one first of all needs wisdom.
This book is a summons to wisdom.

There is a surprising amount of material in this book that can be agreeable to Christians. The Bible says,

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord. Isaiah 2:18.

I would disagree
the books he has written on the idea of matter being an illusion have been also grounded in scientific evidence and to say that it is primarily about metaphysics and philosophy since this contradicts what the Quran itself say’s about there being no divorce between religion and science. Harun Yahya fundamentally grounds a lot of what he say’s in the particular books referred to on science but also what the Quran itself say’s. Pleas read the books ‘Matter: Another Name for Illusion’ and ‘The Little Man in the Tower’. I would certainly like to hear your opinions about them and whether or not what he say’s about science is true. You can read these books on line in his website.

Thankss

i really like this debate pg. but zack if you made one bout masons it would be better and more interesting

hi, i came across this site while surfing the internet on harun yahya.harun yahya does have a number of books on masons such as ” the knights templars”, “global freemasonry” and a variety of books in turkish, on the topic.

saya dukung peyan , biarin orang yahudi ngeledek lu pade jangan di gubris deh ok wong muslim

Peace… as much as i would like to ignore moronic comments like the one below(i’ve to agree with u Carl…)n i apologise coz this website is set up for a TOTALLY different discussion…

MARIAM: Angel please ask God these questions for me.

Why there is wine and virgins for men who goes to heaven? What do women got in return or it is presumed no women will be allowed there.

Posted by: Mariam (2 comments) at April 18, 2004 06:16 PM

Can’t help but quote just A Verse from the Quran
to help our beloved sister Mariam understand the truth:

Anyone who acts rightly, male or female, being a believer, We will give them a good life and We will recompense them according to the best of what they did. (Qur’an, 16:97)

Allah s.w.t explains! So Angel… GOD has already answered n Mariam… May Allah Guide u… Peace!

hmm
if thats the casee..can someone tell me why the Quran tells women to be ‘obedient’ to their husbands and prevents women from being the Khalifa? I myself am a believer in Islam, just would like to hear people;s comments on this issue.

Thanks

What a debate we have here. lol. I would just like to state a few things about evolution.

Evolution lowers humans to a heap of matter (no offense). Now lets forget the heap of matter, lets go down to the cells which are like the building blocks of a human being.

Each cell has a nucleus and inside that nucleus lies one of the greatest wonders of modern biology—DNA.

You cannot reduce DNA to matter since it is information. They have to be taken seperately—matter and information. Matter being the four chemicals that make up the code in DNA and information being what the enzymes in the cell interpret from the chemicals. Biologists study these two things without reduction to matter wholely (which is materialism) because that would be like reducing my writing here to electrical impulses which it is more then. You have to consider both the electrical impulses AND what my writing is talking about. The information in DNA is a blow to the “came about by chance” cliche. It is a matter of logic and observance of the probabilities.

Hmm…probabilities, that is something evolutionists don’t mention on any of their evolutionary explanations. I want some kind of rough probability to be calculated by evolutionists even if it is [0.000000000000001] and then put on their explanations somewhere like:

“This protein could have had an accidental mutation and turned into protein-x [probability of this in one out of trillion cells is 0.000000000001. Then it could have binded to protein-a to create this cellular function.

Probability of such is 0.00000000000000000000001.”

Maybe they don’t want to even entertain thoughts about probability? That isn’t scientific.

Now you can argue that the DNA information came about by chance but evolutionists must give us a convincing number. Mathematicians and biologists have actually tried to get a rough estimate of the probabilities in some evolutionary scenarios. The numbers are so low that they refute the particular evolutionary scenarios. I don’t have a number/probability for the DNA arguement but don’t tell me that it is high. It is most likely extremely low. If not then proving it to be high would be a showing me a number here and listing the steps taken to find the number.

I have read a book by a famous biochemist named Michele Behe (not a thiest) called Darwin’s Black Box which is comprehensive in profiling many biochemical entities which the evolutionists just can’t provide a good explanation to.

Here is a quote from the director of the German Federal Physics and Technology Institute, Prof. Werner Gitt:

“A coding system always entails a nonmaterial intellectual process. A physical matter cannot produce an information code. All experiences show that every piece of creative information represents some mental effort and can be traced to a personal idea-giver who exercised his own free will, and who is endowed with an intelligent mind…. There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter…”

I just talked about DNA and “information” here and I will stick with that arguement. Harun Yahya isn’t a specialist and therefore you cannot find extremely detailed (like in Darwin’s Black Box) arguements. I respect Harun Yahya’s work against evolution because personally, I want evolution to answer more questions which it has been unable to answer. Maybe evolution is just another dogma like the world being flat or the earth being the center of the universe. :( One way or the other, if evolution doesn’t answer the modern findings than we will have to set it aside.

When evolution surrenders it doesn’t mean you have lost your freedom to deny God. After all, God does say “Let there be no compulsion in religion”. But then again this debate isn’t about faith right? It is about evolution.

So don’t worry about HAVING TO SURRENDER TO FAITH AND “OMG I MUST HOLD ONTO EVOLUTION OR ELSE I WILL BE DEFEATED BY THE CREATIONISTS”. As a Muslim I say, peace be upon you whether you are a creationist, evolutionist, athiest, thiest, etc as long as we can discuss things in a proper manner.

Zack I have one question for you. Are you open to the possibility that evolution COULD be wrong. Because you have mentioned that:

“I agree that there’s a lot I don’t know, but I am always open to knowledge.”

Hope you are open to knowledge. I will end it here. I believe the information theory I just summarized here needs solid refutation if evolution is to be true at all.

- God Bless

Actually Behe is not the only scientist that is “peddling” the Intelligent Design Movement and it is maturing quite well as an alternative to evolution. Evolution is a naturalist or “materialist” theory and the main purpose of naturalism is as Dictionary.com puts it:

The system of thought holding that all phenomena can be explained in terms of natural causes and laws.

Therefore, human beings can be explained in terms of natural causes like firing neurons in the brain—like a machine is explained in terms of its natural laws like electricity and how the circuitry uses it. Human beings are basically thought of as machines or as I put it, a heap of matter or a heap of flesh.

Zack - Evolution is a theory to naturally explain a lot of biological phenomena. It does that quite well. Over time, there have been modifications and refinements in the original theory propounded by Darwin. That is what science is about. I expect that this will continue happening as scientists work in this field. Neither Intelligent Design nor Creationism explain anything in this respect and are beliefs rather than scientific theories.

I know what evolution is. Yes there have been modifications to adapt it to recent discoveries such as DNA but it still doesn’t explain much biological phenomenon such as “How did the first cell originate?”. I also disagree that Science is only about refining old theories. It is especially about new theories coming out and completely trashing old theories as it so happened in history. That is what makes science fascinating and challenging.

The theory with the strongest evidence always comes out successful no matter how hard it is surpressed with stereotypes and biases, and recently the evidences have not been pointing towards evolution, it has been pointing towards the Design theory which was drawn up to analyze evidence of design in nature using the scientific method.

Of course for now people are employing such methods as fending off ID using such terms as “stealth creationism” and “pseudoscience” and as you said “belief”. These things don’t matter because as long as ID is able to provide a proper scientifically and empirically detectable alternative to evolution and have evidence supporting it, it will gain a stronger support and then eventually topple evolution. The theology isn’t really important because the ID proponents don’t presuppose God like creationists. Their inferences rest solely on the analysis and observations of nature. ID is presenting a hurdle for Darwinism and if it cannot remove that hurdle, then it is well of to the dustbin, even if that proccess would be slow.

So Zack, please look over at least some of the ID arguments before labelling it as “creationism” or “belief” and saying that Behe is “probably the only scientist who thinks [intelligent design] explains [nature]” because that is CERTAINLY not true. Labelling it as “belief” without looking over it’s arguements isn’t the spirit of science.

Harun yahya is the MEHDİ.

hmmm
mehdii???????????????? doubt that

Why you say that he is MAHDI!? This can be used as a conspiracy! Stop doing this. He is a normal human, who had read the Qur’an. And he has understandings, you just read he’s books. He has more than 100 in english. And all other 24 lang. But he never says: : “I am… ” or… “I wanna be.. I have to be…” this is stupid! You can read other book, and there you go. Conspiracy. He is not Mahdi, Adnan is… now we have 2 Mahdi, and other mosleem Alyms as potential Mahdi’s. Mahdi won’t appear now. He is borned. But don’t say “HE IS!” You don’t know ALLAH does. ALLAH does… You don’t know nothing. Nothing that can tell us when Mahdi comes. Or Who is Mahdi… but if we follow this Conspiracy there is a lot of Mahdi’s in Turkey. You just analyze a little bit. Tey have all fondation from Chatolic churches. Not Harun Yahya. But others… and they all claim that are mahdi. ehheh.. how stupid. ILLA FITNATAN! this is nothing but GAME! Rasheed Khalifa also claimed that he is MAHDI! He is killed. Now we have other Mahdi’s like, Fetullah from Trukey. Than little local majlees in Istanbul and other places. And they all have MAHDI. this is one of the Fitna’as. ILLA Fitnatan. Mahdi is here.. but not on age 45, 40… he is on 24 to 25. You can Read Hadith about Mahdi. He will appear on age 40. ALL this Mahdi’s have more than 50. And they all work for money. Harun doesen’t. But don’t say that HE IS Mahdi. This is a big Insult for Adnan, also for ISLAM, and mostly for ALLAH. ALLAH knowes who is Mahdi, or will he come. Stay calm…

To Mariam : You asked ‘Angel’ to ask God why there is wine and virgins for men who go to heaven? What do women got in return or is it presumed no women will be allowed there.
If Allah said like that, then it has to be that way. You better read the Quran yourself once again and see if women have any good in Heaven. If you only want to ridicule Allah then take care, He is strict in punishment. Stop being foolish.

To Zack : I read through the whole chain of discussion. Please tell me. Do you believe in Allah? Do you also believe that He created the first man Adam from soil and then, through him created Eve and procreated mankind through them in to nations and tribes?

If your answer is YES to the above questions you could be a Muslim but if by chance your answer is NO to any one of the above questions, sorry to say, you cannot be a Muslim. You could be a Jew who runs this web site to confuse the Muslims. I have no more comments.

Zack : I know you may be believing in a “god”. That’s not enough to be a Muslim. I asked you whether you believe in Allah, the Rabb of the Aalameen. If your answer is ‘yes’ then, your answer to my second question has to be an affirmative YES, which will take you completely out of your Darwin Mythology. It’s as simple as this. If your asnwer is “no” to any one of these questions, then, I am absolutely right about who you are.

But you are free to believe in whatever you want to as much as I am free to believe in whatever way I want to. Allah is the JUDGE. Cheers!

Believing in a ‘god’ is not good enough to be a Muslim,. But I asked you whether you believe in Allah, the Rabb of the Aalameen. Do you feel inferior to use the word ALLAH.

Anyway if your answer to my first question is ‘yes’ then your aswer to the second question has to be an affirmative ” YES ” . I can explain why… but not now. If it’s “No” then, my belief of who you are has to be correct.

You have the free will to think whatever way you want to as much as I have. Cheers…!

sorry for the repeat post.

God has gender, plurality, and there are many millions of satanic gods worshipped by Hindus , Buddhists etc. If you didn’t know, please know that Allah is unique and specific to the true Rabb of Aalameen ( which is not possible to translate in to any language.)

Anti Semitism? … when you criticize Muslims or Arabs anti Semitism doesn’t seem to come to your mind. For your information Arabs are also Semitic.
Only when a Jew is mentioned you seem to agitate.

Who gave me the right to call someone Muslim or not…? Qur’an clearly defines who is a Muslim and who is not in the very first vesus of Ch 2 Surah Baqarah. where in v 4 it quotes about the muttaqeen… “… the one who believes in what is revealed to you (Muhammed) and what was revealed before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter.”

In what was revealed to Muhammed (pbuh) belief in the creation of the first man by Allah with clay is straight forward. I believe I don’t have to quote those versus you can look up yourself.
You don’t have to beat about the bush. It didn’t say Adam evolved through monkey. Moreover he was created not on the earth but in the paradise. Read the last lines…

Qur’an is a clear message. There is no case of believing in part and disbelieving in part. IF you disbelieve in portions which are very clear then you are defined in the Quran as a disbeliever. Creation of first man Adam is a clear message which you disbelieve in or you just side step by saying “…..the question does not have the straight forward answer that you are looking for”

Read this…. in Ch2 v 85 “………… then do you believe in a part of the scripture and reject a part? Then what is the recompense of those who do so amongst you, except disgrace in the life of this world and on the day of resurrection they shall be consigned to the most grievous torment……. “

So if you want to be a Muslim take heed of these commands. These are not my words but Allah’s.

Please read carefully… a conversation in the paradise…. I am not trying to degrade you just trying to show how serious it is…. Ch 7 v 12 ” (Allah) said, ’ What prevented you (O Iblis or ‘Satan’ ) that you did not prostrate yourself (to Adam) when I commanded you?’ Iblis said, ‘I am better than him (Adam) , You created me from fire and him you created from clay.’ “

Please read the rest of the versus …. which clearly informs that Adam and Eve were both in Heaven before being sent to the earth. Your question of man evolving from Ape or any other creature has no ground to stand if you are a “Believer “.

Zack : What’s your problem Zack? Why can’t you say whether you accept the versus in the Qur’an about Adam’s creation in the heaven and not on the earth thru’ evolution from an Ape.

Our argument is not whether you are a Muslim or not but whether your ancestor was a monkey or not.

Come on Zack be a human and tell me whether you accept the words of Allah wholesale or not. If you say ‘No” I don’t have to judge you as a non-Muslim but you will just reveal yourself as to who you are.

I hope you will have the courage to give a straight forward answer this time atleast, w/o diverting the isuue to what religion you belong to.

Bye…

Everyone should read this interesting piece of article to know about anti Semitism
http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20040917/index.php

My problem : Give me a straght answer - Do you accept the words of Allah saying He created Adam out of clay in the heaven and then Eve and then sent them both to earth, to procreate in to nations? What is your problem to say “no” if your belief is so? If “no”, what is your interpretation for those words?

Dear Zack, Do u mean Heaven , Hell a