Muslim Population

326 comments

1. yashendra: Nice way to give your opinion by insulting me.

2. Dear Zack,

   You must learn to accept the roses with the thorns and that too when you want to debate a hyper sensitive subject like the population figure of Indian Muslims. Or, did you expect me to join you in this juvenile guessing game and to sing your praises and complement you for initiating such a subject that has as its beginning and end an endless guessing dialogue on the true numbers of India’s Muslims? Don’t take offence.

   My questions are: 1)What would have been the population of Muslims had India not split into three parts (India, Pakistan and Bangladesh)?

   2)How would such a huge Muslim population dealt with the Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and other non-Muslims?

   3) Would Islamic Jihadi terrorism have turned Unidivided India into one big battle field?

   4) What would have been the orientation of the Constitution? Theocracy, dictatorship or democratic, secular republic?

   5)Would the Muslims have out-bred the Hindus and imposed Islamic law?

   6)How would the Hindus have reacted?

   7)What would have Undivided India’s foreign policy tilt been?

   8)Would Undivided India (with a 30% or 40% Muslim population) have made huge advances in frontier sciences (as Bharat has made today)?

   9) Would Undivided India been able to set up world class research insitutions like the IISc (Bangalore), ISRO, BARC, TIFR, IITs, ISIs, etc?

   10) In Undivided India would peace have prevailed to permit the advance of scientific and economic progress, or would the perpetual communal wars have dragged it into the morass of degradation?

   11) Would the spirit of free inquiry been safeguarded and encouraged in Undivided India in view of the fact that not a single Muslim nation encourages free thinking and questioning of its silly religious dogmas?

   12) Would Undivided India been capable of producing world beaters in every field or would it have fallen into the gutters of fanaticism of sky-gazing and blindly believing, as the “wonderful” Quran preaches, that the extra-cosmic god, creation out of nothing, heaven in the clouds and other such idiotic fables are possible?

   13) What would have been the position of the varied languages, festivals, cultural forms and the plight of the dalits in Undivided India been?

   WAHE GURU KI FATEH (VICTORY TO THE GURU)!!! SATYAMEV JAYATE (MAY TRUTH PREVAIL)!!!!

   Yashendra

3. Great Going Yashendra.

   Your intelligent queries, reasonings and apt sermonising have put the Zacks, Sindhis and Raufs on this forum to shame.

   You’ve at least shown far superior intellectual traits going by your incisive queries.

   What would be the consequences on India’s political, social, communal, religious, cultural, knowledge-based,linguistic and constitutional institutions with a growing Muslim population?

   How would things stand 4-5 decades from now in all the abovenamed spheres?

   Will the Hindus regress further in face of a strong Muslim response?

   Will India, Pakistan and Bangladesh unite into a single unit over the decades or centuries as the sub-continent’s demographic balance, as indicated by several scholarly studies, tilts in favour of the Muslims with Hindus becoming a minority?

   Zack, learn from Yashendra. Guys, try answering these posers and the queries posted by Yashendra.

   Love,

   Joel Pastakia

4. JOEL HAS PROVEN HIS SEXUAL ORIENTATION TOWARDS YASHENDRA! THIS WHOLE THREAD HAS TURNED INTO AN INTIMATE CONNECTION BETWEEN YASHENDRA AND JOEL. AND I COULDNT BE HAPPIER. A MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN FELLAS……..CONGRATULATIONS.

   ON A MORE SERIOUS NOTE,
   LET US ALL PRAY FOR THOSE WHO PASSED AWAY IN THE EXPLOSIONS IN BOMBAY ON 7/11.

5. Sindhi,

   FROM WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA OF HOMOSEXUALITY? FROM YOUR PARENTS OR TRICKY SINDHI COMMUNITY? I AM SHOCKED U CAN MAKE SUCH WILD ALLEGATIONS JUST COZ YOU HAVE BEEN TICKED OFF BY JOEL FOR BEING SO SUB-INTELLECTUAL AS SEEN BY ALL YOUR PREVIOUS MAILS IN WHICH YOU CHILDISHLY JUST KEEP GUESSING AND GUESSSING AND GUESSING. GROW UP.

   DON’T SHOW YOUR PERVERSIONS ON THE FORUM AND DON’T GET PORNOGRAPHIC AS THEN IT’LL BE PROVED THAT ALONGWITH POSSESSING A LOW IQ YOU HAVE A PERVERTED MIND AND A JEALOUS MIND TOO.

   LET’S DISCUSS THE CAUSES, MOTIVES AND CONSEQUENCES OF A GROWING MUSLIM POPULATION IN PRESENT DAY INDIA AND THE POSSIBILITY OF INDIA, PAKISTAN AND BANGLADESH COMING TOGETHER AS ONE NATION IN THE FUTURE AS, OVER THE DECADES, THE HINDUS MAY WELL BE REDUCED TO A MINORITY IN THE SUB-CONTINENT, AS JOEL REMARKED.
   THIS IS CERTAINLY MORE MEANINGFUL TOPIC FOR DEBATE THAN ZACK’S AND SINDHI’S DUMB AND CHILDISH GUESSING GAME OF POPULATION FIGURES.

   YASHENDRA

6. I think Yashendra is having a bad day. Are you all right? Your entire life must be spent posting comments on this site that no one cares about. Except Joel, who I believe is your soul-mate. Listen guys, you both have so much in common; just exchange numbers and meet up sometime. It’s seriously all right. People have grown tired of your tirades. But you two have grown so much closer because of it; give it a chance! I’m not insulting you guys, but it just sounds like you both have a lot of similar feelings that can be shared together; no one on this site cares about what you guys think. Have fun Yash!

7. HEY SINDHI BOY,

   YOU ARE ONCE AGAIN SHOWING UR JEALOUSY. WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT INTELLIGENT AND HAVE A LOW IQ DUE TO WHICH U KEEP INDULGING IN A CONTINUOUS, SILLY, CHILDISH GAME OF GUESSING THE MUSLIM POPULATION IN INDIA.

   NOW, THAT SINDHI’S JEALOUSY IS ALSO SHOWING, ME THINKS HE’LL NEXT START ABUSING MY MOTHER, WIFE, DAUGHTER AND MOTHER. I KNOW SINDHI COMMUNITY CAN STOOP TO ANY LOW LEVEL TO GET EVEN WHEN THEY ARE OUTWITTED.

   BEHAVE IN AN INTELLIGENT, CULTURED AND SENSITIVE WAY, SINDHI BOY. BUT, HONESTLY YOU DON’T SEEM TO HAVE MUCH INTELLIGENCE AND U ARE SOOOOOOO JEALOUS OF THOSE WHO DISPLAY SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE AND WHO TRY TO BE DIFFERENT FROM THE ORDINARY SHEEP MENTALITY THAT U POSSESS.

   LET NOBLE THOUGHTS COME TO US FROM EVERY SIDE, SAYS THE RIG VEDA.

   LOVE, YASHENDRA.

8. Sindhi Student: Please refrain from insults.

9. I have read the amusing exchange between all of you.

   Can someone give information about the birth of Islam and the connection it has to the Sanatan Dharma (popularly known as Hinduism)?

   Premajit

10. Dear Premajit,

    It’s amazing that you want information on the birth of Islam and its connections with Hinduism. Haven’t you read Joel’s lengthy expositions on the similarities between the two faiths? He clearly brought out the differences and correspondences between them and shown how the key concepts, rituals and terminologies of Islam have been plagiarised from the Vedas and other old books.

    Even the word Allah is Vedic-Sanskrit.

    In short, despite the plagiarisations, Islam stops short at the Monotheistic concept of the extra-cosmic God who’s unlinked with the cosmos in an un-causal relationship (as if cause can ever be divorced from its effects !), while the Vedanta ends on a Monistic note and boldly and rationally declares that God, Nature and Man are One in the Essence as they are the varied manifestations of the One Self-Existent, Self-Contained, Supra-Cosmic Source (The Absolute Consciousness) that serves as both the material and efficient Cause-Mechanism of the universes. In the Vedic view, even the Personal God (Ishwar, Allah, Jehovah, etc)is a manifestation of THAT – The Absolute Consciousness.

    Yashendra.

11. Premajit’s amused as he’s in the dark about the more philosophical and subtler aspects of existence. Perhaps, he’s a mere mathematician or a chemist who knows about the superficial or surface laws of Nature in an inferential manner but is ignorant about their subtler, supra physical or underlying causes.

    Listen, Premajit, to be sarcastically amused by the discussions of others, you must know more than those whom you find inferior. But, here, without comprehending an iota of the depth, drift and tenor of the exchanges, Premajit’s amused. I thought, being such a superior critic, he’d at least be aware of the origin of a world religion like Islam and the fundamental differences between Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism and Islam. It brings to mind an apt quote: fools enter where angels fear to tread. Or, Premajit, should it be, a little knowledge (Maths? Chemistry?) is a dangerous thing?

    Regards,

    Joel Pastakia

12. My comments and questions were in no way sarcastic or out of a superiority complex. I was amused that the tone of the discussion was so personal and at times insulting to each other that someone even went to the extent that people were gay on this forum. That was amusing.
    An intelligent discussion entails a clear cut discussion on the issues and not on personality.
    What does ALLAH mean in vedic- sanscrit?
    And if its so obvious, why do none of the HINDU saints/ organisations make a big deal about the common heritage and background of the HINDU and MUSLIM faith?

13. Prem,

    Thanks for clarifying your stand. But, if I am not mistaken, I think I’d given the meaning of the Vedic-Sanskrit term Allah in a previous message. Anyway,in Vedic-Sanskrit, Allah means the Impersonal Cosmic Consciousness that’s a manifestation of the Supra Cosmic Absolute Consciousness (Akhand Chit). The word Allah is just one of the synonyms of the Impersonal Cosmic Consciousness that’s also styled more popularly as Ishwar, Akshar Brahman, Bhagwan, God, Jehovah, etc. But, the Absolute Consciousness exceeds the Impersonal Cosmic Consciousness. This is the Vedic stand, even the sufis consider Allah as the Personal God and Al Haque as the Supreme Godhead that exceeds Allah.

    Most people are unaware of these terms as they are more caught up with the external, ritualistic or superstitious sides of faith. For instance, how many Hindus use the word Brahman for the Absolute? How many Hindu, you included, know the difference between Brahman and Brahma? While the former is the Absolute Godhead, the latter is a cosmic aspect of the former and is a Cosmic Consciousness-Force that deals with the projection and functionalities of the name and form aspects of the Cosmos. The Absolute is the Supra Cosmic Source of all.

    By the way, there are scholarly articles on the past Vedic heritage of Arabia. Incidentally, even the words Kaaba, Makka, Ibrahim Muhammad, Madina, Eid, Hajj, Rooh, Sangmay Aswad, Mam, Mim, Ra, all the Hajj rituals, etc, found in the Quran are lift offs from Vedic sources. All this has been proved by scholars and all the proofs exist. Open your eyes and discover the truth.

    Regards,

    Joel.

14. Thanks for the reply. You obviously are very well read and articulate………(this I am saying at the cost of some people calling me names tooo)-:)
    Lets hope that the people of peace will prevail and that they will understand that all human beings are manifestation of the same energy of the supreme conciousness.
    Organised religion is the biggest terrorist organization in the world………What we need is religiousness and the understanding of universal brotherhood in this world.
    With best wishes,
    Premajit

15. Check this out

    http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm

    http://www.hinduism.co.za/islam.htm

    Premajit

16. Hello everyone…I have read almost all the coments by the respected users over here..including those of Joel and Yashendra…where the latter challenges the muslims to come up with answers.
    I m afraid my comment would be long too..
    I want to dispose of with some of the myths that these guys have sucessfully created..since my post will be an answer to all the misconceptions about Islam spread above..it will be divided into several parts each part answering a certain myth.

    MYTH #1)ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF TERROR AND IT WAS SPREAD BY SWORD: Well…Islam started with Prophet Muhammad(saws)-a single person who preached love,equality,peace and submission to the One Allah.His message was received more in Yathrib(modern medina)than in his native Makkah.When finally the Islamic armies of Medina captured Mecca…the residents there who had actively contrived against the Prophet(saws)forcing him to leave the city were spared and only a few known criminals were punished.Now my friends if Islam and its Prophet were indeed blood hungry of the innocent then how come did they leave their one time sworn enemies alive when they had completely vanquished them?Answer me if you can….

    When Islamic armies captured Jerusalem in 685 AD,the Jews and the Christians there were placed under state protection whereas centuries later when the crusaders captured the same Jerusalem,entire muslim and jewish populations were anhiliated.If muslims were that blood hungry would they have spared the jews and christians then?

    Coming back to India,in its 700 years of Muslim rule,can anyone find any remote gross state led economic subjugation and oppresion as in the British rule of 200 years?Yet it is the Muslim who stands as the villain and destroyer of Hindus.

    As for the speading with the sword-Well please answer my simple question:Suppose I convert you to Islam by force,can I force you to convert others to Islam in a similar manner,spirit and enthusiasm?An obvious “No” if you are from the world of reason.So I suppose when the small state of Medina invited its neighbouring populations to ISLAM it wasnt by force that Islam spread since these populations in turn and within a span of 50 years had converted the entire middle east to Islam…and there after their continuing generations had Persia,central Asia,southern and eastern Europe, Afghanistan.Western Indian subcontinent and the far east converted to Islam.of course in the process wars ensued.you would call them wars to spread Islam.I would call them wars to liberate entire populations from their dead religious views and expose them to the light of Islam,and which happened in reality.Today important Islamic countries were once the main enemies of Islam…the persians,the Turks,the mongols…so just question the simple fact-why did Islam spread among conquered people who should have had an extreme hate for Islam who conqured them.?
    And you would perhaps also like to question yourself as to why is Islam the fastest growing religion in USA whose citizens face terror wraths from Muslims worldwide?

    It just goes on to show that Islam is and will always be the religion of peace and truth which will be aceptable even to its sworn enemies once they understand the true message of Islam-Submission to the will of Allah…Do good and invite others towards good works…Shun bad deeds and prevent others from commiting bad deeds.

17. Hello friends…continuing from my first post…my comments are( I accept with a regret to Zack ) off the intended topic but again it is rather a response to the critical and biased views about Islam that requires some explanation

    MYTH#2:MANY WORDS IN ISLAMIC THEOLOGY ARE DIRECT OFFLIFTS FROM VEDIC SOURCES SO ITS A COPY RELIGION OF HINDUISM:

    Well…I can agree with you my friends that many words in Islamic thelogy may be there in the Vedas.You may also be informed that the word Allah(Al-Lah meaning the Divinity) have been found engraved in caved dating back to about 3000 years.Supposedly Islam did not exist that long ago..isnt it?
    But wait..lets see what Islam has to say about itself.Islam says that its not invented in the 7th century AD.It claims that it starts with the first man Adam and the first woman Eve.
    Hadiths(sayings of the Prophet saws) say that Allah had sent about 1,24,000 prophets into the world(figures are approximate without any clear consensus on the actual number but they are certainly large is what is in concensus)before prophet Muhammad(saws).Jesus,Moses,Abraham,Noah are a few of the famous prophets about whom all of us know.Then is it not possible that Allah had sent prophets to India too?
    The ancient saints of Hindus may have been actually prophets of Islam.Islam also holds that it has evolved alongwith the evolution of humanity.You cant expect Islam in 8th century BC to ask its women to wear the veil when there has been no proper clothing material invented.So Islam for Moses’s age was the 10 commandments..for Jesus’s period was a set of laws which were incorporated in the Bible for Muhammad(saws) period it was a complete law laid down in the Shariat and Quran and hadith.And Islam concludes when Allah says that this day religion has been perfected for you.
    Now I come back….why dont we believe in Moses 10 commandments or the Bible when they are actually Islam.We do believ!.Islam has incorporated all the 10 commandments ,all that is in the bible and added extra thing too.So now the old religions are irrelevant in the face of Islam.Its just as using an upgraded versiuon of a computer programme.if you continue to use your old version you are likely to run into errors.
    The Bible was written 200 years after the disappearance of Jesus(contrary to what most Christians believe that it had been written during Jesus’s time) and its corruption is evident from its countering views on science(which is the reason why most western scientists are sceptical of religion and are taken to atheism)
    Now the Vedas have been written and compiled over a very long period of time.Ofcourse they do contain many things which Islam reinforces,however they also suffer from scientific inaccuracies which even the most ardent Hindu cant deny.However such an allegation cannot be proved against the Quran.So my friends why not use the “upgraded version”? The Quran is not the first book of revelation ..however it is ofcourse the only Book of revelation to stay in its true form(if anyone has any doubt about my statement I will explain in a separate post).

    You speak of just a few words from the Vedas…entire concepts of the Quran are similar to the Bible..the formation of the earth,the first man and woman,heaven and hell,the judgement day…does that mean that Quran is a copy of the Bible?
    Those who criticize the Quran I would advise them to atleast read its content.Even with a biased mindset you would be compelled to accept its uniqueness vis a vis the Vedas,Bible or other religious books.Its a counter challange to the critics of Islam from me.

18. MYTH#3-ISLAM BREEDS INTOLERANCE:

    Yes!That is extremely true.Islam has a zero tolerance towards oppresion and falsehood.It seeks and urges its followers to rise up against oppression since oppression is worse than slaughter as the Quran says.

    But at the same time it is the most tolerant religion on earth when the question comes of other religious communities.

    *Islam says that you should not abuse anyone’s religion.If the other person abuses Islam back then you would be held guilty for inciting him and considered that you yourself has abused Islam.

    *Let there be no compulsion in Religion(Surah Bakarah)

    *You are to preach to the whole world and carry the message of Islam to every household.But its their responsibility to accept or not.And your reward lies with your Lord.This concept is repeated many times in the Quran.

    *The third pillar of Islam Zakat(poor due) can be given to the poor non Muslims if there is no poorer muslims.

    I can go on and on to prove my point and if you are further interested you may call for it.
    Now coming back to another issue-Muslims give a higher status to religion than country.Yes this is true.But I cant find where it is an obstacle to the loyalty to one’s country.If you are talking about Jehad then thats a different issue.You cant wage jihad on your country so long as you are residing and enjoying its fruits.You have to migrate and join Islamic forces elsewhere and then if there is oppression in your original homeland from where you had been displaced,then you can wage a jihad and free it from tyrannical rule-this is an explicit rule of jehad something which our beloved Prophet(saws) himself demonstrated in his migration to Medina from Makkah.After all loyalty to a country means not harming its security,seeking its development,honouring its position…all of which Islam itself promotes.So logically,placing Islam before India will not alter my practical loyalty to my country.
    And if a substantial number of Muslims are trying to create an Islamic state from the existing Muslim states then what is bad in it?We all know that United we stand Divided we fall.But again it would be bad for critics of Islam since they would never want to see an United Islam…they are happy each time a conflict flares up between 2 muslim countries on a superflous reason and out of the selfish desires of tyrannical rulers in the muslims states itself.

    I am sure you would not like to divide India along the way in which it was divided in the past between the various Hindu kingdoms..untill it was the Muslim mughal dynasty which was largely responsible for a unifies India today.Many Islamic countries are smaller than states of UP or West Bengal and all of them are smaller than India.So can I safely infer that whereas you want to remain unified yourself,you wish to see the House of Islam divided?Isnt that conspiracy on your part?So Muslims who are trying to unify the Islamic world are actually who are working heart and soul for Islam.They are not against anyone…they are simply trying to salvage their own destiny.

19. Yashendra ..you have given a long list of question of what would have happened to hindus if India had not been separated from pakistan.I want to ask another set of questions to you….find these answers and you will get the answer to your own questions also…

    1)What would have been the fate of another 150 million muslims under Indian rule composed of mainly Hindu and accomodating corrupted and divided muslim rulers ?

    2)what would have been the answer to the nuclear threat of the west and other sworn enemies in disguise of Islam from the Islamic nation?

    3)Where would have been the dreams of the Muslims to lift the World Cup in cricket?

    4)How many more Babri Masjids would have been broken down in front of helpless muslims?

    5)How much more land belonging to Muslims would have been evacuated and settled with hindus just as jews displace muslims in palestine and Bangladeshi hindus displaced Bengal Muslims with government support?

    6)What would have been the percentage of jobs of muslims in the muslim majority states of the hypothetical united indo-pak country?(in jammu and kashmir non muslims have nearly 3/4ths of government jobs whereas the state’s muslim population is more than 70 percent.Even in chinese Xingjiang province Muslims are just a paltry 30 percent in government jobs whereas it has a 98% muslim population)

    7)What would have happened to the vast mineral and metal deposits in the muslim states.would they ever have found any good to the Muslims who would have been just employed as labourers to mine them out..while others enjoy its fruits.

    8)Would there had been another Muslim representative at the United Nations and OIC?

    9)Would there had been an Islamic army capable of defeating most European ans Jewish powers?

    10)Would there have been research facilities from where muslims could have benefitted and learnt ?

    11)Would there have been ever a Government based on Shariat?Or would the Muslims be ever hooted around to surrender to an Uniform civil code?

    12)Would there been independent religious organizations preaching Islam and its truth or would they have been banned with effect and Islamic leaders jailed and all voices of Islam suppressed?

    13)Would muslims be allowed to live a life of peace and security ?or would the likes of state supported pogroms in Gujarat be replicated in lahore and peshawar?

    14)Would have the muslims enjoyed a life of dignity or would have they been marginalised out of every sphere and treated like second class citizens?

    15)Would there be an independent Islamic entity ready to support brother Islamic nations in times of trial had Pakistan merged with India?

    MAny such questions can be raised …so Yashendra please keep your questions within yoir confused head if you dont want to raise a hundred more…

    Thanks(assuming you follow my advice)
    Regards,Zarq

20. MYTH#4:ISLAM IS OUTDATED AND INCOMPATIBLE WITH MODERNITY:

    Well my great friends how do you see modernity?
    According to me Modernity encompasses the following aspects(please let me know if you have a different view)

    i)Modernity implies scientific thought and approach.
    ii)Modernity implies that we dont follow the jungle rules of force.
    iii)Modernity implies that we dont go back to the age of caveman when we had no clothes to cover our shame.
    iv)Modernity implies we break the chain of customs and traditions which are usually corrupt

    Now I would want to discuss Modernity in the context of Islam:
    i)A well known hadith(saying) of the Great Prophet of Islam,Muhammad(saws),states that seek for science even in China.
    In those days China was far away Arabia,and mind it there were no aeroplanes to cross the mountain ranges in Iran,Afghanistan and India to reach China.Yet the Prophet(saws) advised in a commanding tone to face all these difficulties to learn science.His followers did follow his advice and that is why we have Algebra ( Al-Jebr in arabic) in Mathematics and Alkali( Al-kaali) in Chemistry.And that is why the forefather of the AK_47 ..the first gun of the world was made by scientists of Babur.So isnt that modern approach?

    ii)Pre Islamic warfares were only for personal and territorial gains.However Islam put an end to that sequence.The Quran explicitly states over and over to fight only in the cause of Islam.What causes?..If Islam is attacked,if its followers are persecuted,if Islamic thoughts are prevented from the masses,and such noble causes where Islam states again explicitly that the wars of Islam should be a response to rather than initiation of a conflict.Thus the rules of jungle are replaces by the rule of Allah and as 1.3 billion Muslims will accept even in the face of defeat and humiliation that Allah is not unjust.Now a few of my critics may say that the rule of Islam invites capital punishment.Well I can just say actions speak louder than words.In India a thief can get away with a jail term of approximately 6 months or so…and never does he rectify his habit.But Islamic laws calls for chopping his hand off.Well according to you its barbarism,But I am sure according to the shopkeeper whose shop has just been visited my burglars,Islamic law is right.Dare to leave an ungaurded vegetable shop in Delhi …and you wont find a trace of where the vegetables are gone.But even jewellery shops in Dubai have no problems in leaving their shops for prayers ungaurded.Again,an Indian or for that matter most courts of the world would give a sentence of a few years of imprisonment to drug dealers.Well we all know what he becomes after he comes out…the kingpin of the drug ring!
    But look at the Islamic laws..it carries death punishment.Now thats barbarism isnt that?Yet you would be astonished to find that such a law by the Talibans in Afghanistan had its opium manufacture down to just 3 percent of pre Taliban levels.Enjoy hearing that?..But sadly enough with the Taliban out of the affairs,the opium manufacture is back in full swing.If your brother is a drug addict and your family is jeopardized because of it..then I am sure you are to embrace Islam if you give a thought to it.

    iii)Well the Islamic veil is supposed to be an impediment to women’s freedom.But I cant understand the fact that how does it affects a woman’s ability to achieve higher ends of life.Are you sure the Western so called civillized society and what is being imitated my the so called modern Indians…by being naked and scantily clad achieve the higher ends of life?
    Or do they convert into public properties?You may enjoy girls in the nude as long as your sister is not being viewed by someone in a similar way.Then you would want your sister covered up.You wont prefer your wife to be raped by unknown men with you being forced to watch the whole scene…yet that is what the latest craze among rapists…just see the different sites of rapes..u would be surprised at the rate rapes are taking place in the so called free societies ..women treated like shit..gang bang and forced witness are just some types of fantasies that the “free women ” have to pay the price of their “freedom”.Even as you read my post a woman have been raped in America.Beware!India is catching up fast.Just ask yourself..if there are a pair of sisters..both twins ..identical..beautiful…walking down a lonely street..one in a top and mini skirt and the other in veil……and a rapist lurks in the corner-which girl will he be motivated to rape?Find the answer and imagine that twin to be your sister..you will understand from which point Islam speaks.Islam protects women and her modesty.That is why if you challenge a woman’s modesty in an Islamic court you have to produce 4 witnesses else you get lashed up.
    Thus we get that Islam is the heralder of modern views since it knows that the woman is a mother,the first teacher..and she should be both modest and protected so that the child is nurtured in a healthy manner.

    iv) Customs and traditions are known in Islam as Bidayat(something many muslims are sadfully involved in)…Bidayat is viewed as something not existing in Islam or some custom or tradition which has been invented after the declaration of Islam as the complete religion.As regards to Bidayat..Prophet Muhammad(saws) has said that Bidayatis(those who commit bidayat) go out of Islam as a single hair goes out of mould of unbaked bread.Thus Islam refutes any custom or tradition.It preaches a simple way of principled life dedicated to doing good and resisting evil.

    So let the proponents of modern society know that Modernity has not started with the invention of your WMD’s but more than 1400 years ago…

21. Hello friends..there has been a lot of talk off the topic over here presumably because Muslim bashers will not leave a single chance of denigrating and falsifying Islam.

    Among them Joel has emerged as the frontliner.However a close look at his posts will reveal an underlying deep hatred for Islam and refusing to reason with stark realities such as that which makes up the Islamic history.

    He claims that Vedic seers saw the futility of monotheism,discarded it and instead chose monoism as the basic fundamental of Hinduism philosophy.Thus from his own statement Joel himself confesses that Hinduism as of today is a man made religion,the religion Vedic seers compiled and propagated.No doubt this fact is represented in the lack of Universal appeal and the limitation of Hinduism to the Indian sub continent even though it claims to be the oldest religion on earth.

    Joel goes on to claim that Islam has no answer to the supposedly “superior” Vedic question.He further claims that Islam has no logic in itself.Oh come on Joel..our nonsense talk of supra cosmic absolute conciousness is the same sort of talk that Brahmin priests used to indulge in when explaining (did they really mean to explain or confuse the population? )religion to common man.I doubt if any person over here has understood your concept of God and religion including yashendra who lauds you as exploding Islamic “false claims”.Its a ploy of the likes of you to confuse people to utter bewilderness so that religion remains a mystery for them and then they come to you for an explanation thus fortifying your position in the society as priests….a similar ploy by the corrupt Brahmin priests for centuries already stands exposed before everyone.One thing I can be sure is that you can fool one person all the time,all the people for just one time but not all the people for all times.Its a negligience of their duty by Muslims that Islam is not dominant in India.The day Islamic missionaries start preaching Islam on the scale it was preached in the 11th century AD..that day will find you and your likes no place to hide.

    Alternately I can simply wink at you and tell you that the proof of the pudding is in the eating thereof.Islam spread across continents across different civillizations proving its Universal character and message in the face of violent resistance the likes of which we do not see today since Islam is a dominant force in the world now.It has proved beyond doubt that it has appealed and has been welcomed by people of all civillizations including Indians.However what have Hinduism done in all these 5000 years of its existence when there were no other real opponents to it(Indians were a great power to reckon with in the ancient history)? If Hindus are 11 percent of World population today then its sheer by the population explosion in India since we do not find Hindu converts from other civillizations.
    Conversion of others to Hinduism is far far off the topic…your very definition in the Indian Constitution is dependent on other religious identities..The Constitution states that whoever is not a Muslim,Christian,Pasrsee,Sikh or Jew is a Hindu….

    So what we have at last …. a man made religion full of rituals its elite used to oppress its people economically and socially,who have no identity of their own.You call that truth?..I call it absurdity.

    You accuse us Muslims of having preferred religion to Country…but we cant accuse you in the same manner since at the first place you dont have a religion to reckon with.Do you think that I am biased and exaggerating? Well then conduct a simple test among your own brethen:Ask any common hindu to define hinduism…and see how their answers validate a Quranic verse.”Deaf dumb and blind…they will not return to the true path”(Surah Bakarah).

22. Asif Zarq’s comments are interesting and confirm the theory of religious chauvinism!!!!!

    The problem today is of this false belief that one religion is better that the other…….If you go deeper into each scripture, you will find they all have the same message……….

    Whether Islam came first of Hinduism came first is not the question…………the question is abouth peaceful coexistance and universal brotherhood……..

    And if the 11th century tactics were to be reintroduced in todays world for converting the populations of the world and subsequently keeping people in poverty so that they will follow the various fatwas to kill people who do not believe in the same way of life, I do not think people will be sitting and watching it as they did in the 11th century.

    And all this talk of respect for the woman just fizzles out with saying TALAQ 3 times and leaving the poor woman in a lurch…….
    And also how many debaucherous men convert to islam just to take advantage and of this very respectful practice towards women of the muslim religion??? by marrying upto 4 times?

    And is JIHAD just to be used to kill people who do not believe in the same things that the ayotallahs do? or really the fight to remove the evil within oneself , i.e. the ego desires, lust, greed etc?

    And is it really a fact that 72 virgins are waiting in heaven for the people who take innocent lives in cafes and railway stations??

    Everychild that is born in the world is a HINDU….Then he is converted to a MUSLIM, CHRISTIAN, Jew, Sikh, Jain, etc etc etc…..by their parents…..And then the indoctrination of HATRED begins!!!

    The Hindus have never tried to conquer any other people……..the basic teaching of the Hindu way of life is LIVE and LET LIVE……Don’t hurt others and don’t hurt yourselves……….dont be a sadist and don’t be a masochist!!!!

    This is a very sensitive and important subject and needs to be addressed with respect and courtesy towards one another.
    And not as has been done in this blog so far……..

23. Premjit…Its interesting to note that many of the likes of you are constantly harping on the same topic that Hindus do not convert any people into their own fold…But its just like the fable of the man who would say that I wont fight anyone since fighting is bad…but its actually since he doesnt have a gun to fight in the first place.What will you explain to others about Hiduism when the common hindu does not have a common God to worship or a clarity of his religion? And about your statement that every born is a Hindu..I may accept it to certain extent…Hinduism is expressed effectively in idol worship and precisely that is what we have by default in any civillization.Even before the advent of Islam in Arabia..there were many many idols..the Kaaba itself housed 313 idols of all kinds…the God of Water,the God of war,the God of sandstorm…and what not…
    And we all know what happened to those so called Gods 1400 years ago…the present Hindu idols are also the same type of mis-manifestation that takes place in the absence of true guidance.Just ask yourself how many Hindus worship their Gods by understanding what they are doing….
    I do not mean to hurt Hindus…and I do stand in favour of Premjit’s conclusion that we must be able to co-exist peacefully.Since this is also the view propagated by Islam…if Islam believes in Universal Brotherhood..it cant just be limited to Muslims..Islam views the Muslims and non-Muslims as two brothers of the same family of humankind..the latter as a brother who has lost the true way of living.In a hadith(saying) of the Prophet(saws) it is mentioned that on the shoulder of the believer lies the responsibility of preachin Islam to every man on earth..whether the person preached to accepts it or not is another question and irrelevant to preaching..and if a muslim fails in doing so…and his neighbour remains ignorant of Islam..then on the Day of Judgement his neighbour will catch his collar and say to Allah that this Muslim knew that Islam is the true religion,yet he never preched to me…consequently Allah will send both to Hell..one for his negligience in Duty..the other for not trying to seek the truth and remaining satisfied with the falsity he was surrounded with…
    Thanks ,Zarq

24. Asif,

    Hey, your typical bigoted Islamic views have been contradicted on many occasions by me and others on this forum and elsewhere. Your fanaticism is worn on your sleeve. When will guys like you stop parroting the same cliched lines about the superiority of Islam? Do you have any rational answers or hard proofs to establish the supremacy of the sky-god faith that is Islam?

    To begin with, you criticise Hinduism for being polytheist and idolatrous but have you bothered to explore the true meaning of the Vedas, Upanishad and Gita? Do you know that polytheism, idolatory and monotheism centred around the fictional extra-cosmic god(tauheed) have been rejected by the Vedas as false creeds and in place has been expounded the rational philosophy of Monism, Non-Dualism or Advaita? According to the provable claims of Monism that One Self-Existent, Self-Contained Source manifested Itself is myraid ways to form the cosmos. On the other hand, what does Islam preach? Doesn’t it say that an extra-cosmic god called Allah manufactured the universes out of nothing? Jadoo tonaa (magic)! Is creation out of nothing possible? Can Cause ever be divorced from its Effects? So, how true are the claims of Islam? Laughable, aren’t they?

    The various gods of Hinduism are not the Absolute but they constitute the Absolute in manifestation – the gods are the various farishtas or cosmic controllers of the multiple planes and so on.

    Asif you scorn the beliefs of the Hindus, but have you thought how ridiculous it is for Muslims to believe that an angel came to a prophet and disclosed to him a certain amount of ordinary information that went to form the Quran. How silly this claim sounds! Can you prove the existence of this angel (Jibril)? What is the subtle material-force composition of angels? How do the subtle materials-forces connect with matter? Any answers. On hearing this tale about the angel and his revelations to Muhammad, we laugh. To even think that a fairy tale creature like an angel can materialise itself or speak to a humanbeing is sooooo stupid. And, Islam is based on this irrational claim of a mythical creature like an angel revealing information to Muhammad! Like the idols, the angel too is a fiction! What say? Or, do you reject the idol and blindly accept the story of an angel coming to Muhammad and dictating information? The information, too, is stale, second hand knowledge.

    Intrestingly, the idols of the Kaaba were cast out but the tale of the (mythical) angel Jibril was accepted as truth! Besides, why wasn’t the balck stone (Sangmay Aswaad) destroyed by Muhammad alongwith the other idols? Why encircle a phallic symbol like a stone Shiv linga (Sangmay Aswaad)? Does it make sense? What hypocrisy! I call for the destruction of the Sangmay Aswaad in the Kaaba as it is another of those dumb idols. let’s get rid of the evil, black stone pillar in the Kaaba. Ok, Asif.

    Did you know that Allah, Kaaba, Makkah, Madina, Sangmay Aswaad, Eid, Hajj (and all its rituals) and several other Quran terms are of Vedic-Sanskrit origin? I am laughing at your ignorance. Take care, else Nature Supreme may be forced to deal with the Quran in the same way as with the idols in the Kaaba.

    Regards,

    Joel Pastakia

25. My dear Boy Asif,

    I read ur comments and found them very “enlightening”.

    Let’s find out how “enlightening” Islamic beliefs really are: Ok?

    For the sake of argument, let me assume that what you say about non-believers going to hell is true.

    Let’s assume that after death, I’ll go to hell for being a brazen kafir and that you’ll go to heaven for being a devout believer in Allah and the stories of the Quran. Now, answer the following questions:

    Poor me will be sent to hell and will be roasted there in fire and will have boiling water, as the wonderful Quran says, being continually poured down my back.

    Question 1: Is hell a physical place? If so, where is your hell? Does it have a spatio-temporal location? Or does it exist in the sky or outside the universe? (Mind you the physical cosmos is a closed system!)

    Question 2: If the Islamic hell is not a physical place, then what is it? Of what non-physical substances and forces (as Joel queried) is your non-physical hell made up of?

    If hell is a real place,physical or non-physical, then it has to be made up of certain forces and materials.

    So, Asif, if hell exists and if it is a non-physical place as it ought to be, then, can you state the non-physical materials and forces composing hell?

    Question 3: How does the non-physical hell, as Joel inquired, link up with the physical forces and materials making up the physical universe?

    Obviously, for non-physical devils (what are they?) and jinns (?) to come into contact with the physical universe, there has to be a connection between the non-physical forces/materials constituting hell and its evil denizens and the physical universe. Right?

    NOTE:Underlying diversity of every kind (physical and/or non-physical) there HAS TO exist an underlying Unity. Or else, how can two, four or many entities exist independent of each other in violation of the eternal laws of causality.

    So, Asif boy, tell us about the non-physical forces/materials making up hell and say how these non-physical forces/materials connect with the physical universe.

    Let’s find out how clever that mythical Jibril was as it was him who revealed all these tales.

    Question 4: In hell, will there be physical substances like boiling water, physical fires, etc? If yes, then your Islamic hell is a mere physical place, not a non-physical place. But, how can hell be a physical place? After death, can the non-physical, formless and invisible soul reside in a physical place and function physically or be subjected to physical torture? NO.

    Question 5: In Islamic heaven, it is said one will come across gardens, rivers of milk, honey, wine and sexy houris for sex.

    State the material and force composition of your heavens. I assume that your heavens are non-physical places, so give their non-physical material and force constitutions and connections with physical matter.

    NOTE: After death, the body goes into the earth elements and something called a soul (invisible, formless and non-physical) is said to escape out of the body.

    Now, Asif Boy, as the soul(being non-physical, formless and invisible), comes out of the body, what happens to it? If it goes to your heaven, then as Quran says, it’ll actually stroll in gardens, drink wine, honey and milk from beautiful rivers and have sex with houris and pearl-skinned boys.

    Now, tell me, how would it be possible (after death) for a formless, invisible, non-physical soul to have physical organs so as to stroll, eat and have sex in your heaven?

    Only a lunatic would believe that after death, a soul can still perform physical functions like strolling, eating, drinking and screwing. Right?

    But, how can a soul possess physical organs to peform all these physical acts when obviously after death, the physical organs (mouth, hands, feet, stomach, penis, etc) perish with the rest of the physical body and are reduced to mud?

    Thus, what bullshit is the Quran preaching of non-physical places like heaven being constituted of physical substances and physical phenomena and of disembodied souls being able to perform physical acts like frolicking, strolling, eating, drinking and screwing in this non-physical place called heaven?

    Can a non-physical place ever have gardens, rivers of milk, honey and wine? Man, these are physical stuff that are found in a physical place like earth.

    Besides, how can a soul (in the absence of the physical body and organs after death) ever be capable of eating, drinking, screwing and strolling in heaven? Does all this make even the least sense? What major contradictions the Quran has preached and fools blindly swallow these tales !

    Can you prove Allah exists? Can you prove that your hells, heavens, jinns and angels exist? When both the Quran and an ignorant fool like you can not even sensibly define heaven, hell or soul, what are you talking tall for? You’re making a fool of yourself and showing the Quran in a poor light as a book preaching fairytales.

    I can go on pointing out these paradoxes but these should be enough to point out the nonsense in Islamic beliefs. The Quran has become the laughing stock among those who have even a slightly rational mind.

    Is this the reason why thousands of Muslim intellectuals are leaving Islam, while the population of Muslims is going up only due to the poor, illiterate Muslims breeding like rats or due to conversion of the ignorant, downtrodden, social and intellectual rejects to Islam?

    PS: Allah’s chosen nation Saudi Arabia always ranks last at major intellectual competitions like the International Maths Olympiad, its score has hovered around 3 marks out of 240. Great reward for being Allah’s (?) chosen land !!!!

    Your friend,
    Yashendra.

26. Brothers: Peace ! Funny blog this.

    Instead of arguing, let’s all convert to Islam if Asif Bhai can prove that: a) Allah exists, b) Angels, jinns, devils exist, c) Heaven, hell exist, d) Creation out of nothing is possible, e)Eating, drinking, sleeping, running, playing, having sex are possible in his heaven after death (Asif, what about excretion and farting? Will the soul be able to do these things after death? Boy, the soul would have to have an anus to shit and fart not to speak of the soul having limbs, mouth and penis after death to indulge in the physical sights and pleasures of heaven, d)Show the historical proof that Adam, Eve, Moosa, Abraham were real people and not make-belief book characters.

    Give us proof, then preach. Isn’t this a fair proposition, Asif?

    Sanjoy Parkar

27. My dear brother Asif why don’t you reply to all the questions with clarity???

    You talk of 1400 years ago………..but what was happening in this world before that?? There is evidence of creation and life and scriptures from millions of years, about the various incarnations of the Hindu trinity.

    And dear brother, whats wrong with idol worship? They are just symbols for people to identify with and keep themselves in check and on the right track. I think Joel has bought up a very logical point….why do you want the black stone piller in the KAABA? Isn’t that a form of idolatry as are all the hindu gods, who are also made out of stone?

    Have you studied Vedanta, Advaita? Every seeker in India knows that Shiva is represented by the Linga and there are 100s of thousands of black stone temples in India. Shiva is known as KAABALISHWARA for 1000s of years. I have one in my house too……We worship the same black stone. Does’nt that make us brothers?

    We believe in the sacredness of all objects….animate and inanimate, universal brotherhood and love and respect for women and everything else.

    Just drop the rigidity and you will see that we are all the same. There is no KAFIR or infidel.
    I had posted 2 links a week back. please read them again.

    And please let me know the real truth behind the 72 virgins in heaven! And do YOU truly believe in these tales.

    With best wishes,
    Premajit

28. Sorry my “friends”..these days I am a bit busy with another attack from another quarter..cyber war with the Jews…who are up in propaganda against the Muslims in this current Lebanon crisis…that conflict has been essentially turned against them thanks to the help from Allah..and of course a little trick which has turned their weapon against them…

    Lot of comments and lot of questions from many of you..I have read them all and would request you to give me a day or two…both to deal the crisis on another front and also to give myself some more time to arrange the answers to all of your questions in the best way.

    In the meanwhile enjoy Islam bashing since these acts of yours will be recounted to you on the Day of Judgement which you ofcourse not believe yet which will eventually come to all of us.

    And Yashendra I have never said that I “will” go to heaven neither that you “will” go to Hell….its upto the Judgement of Allah…I prefer to use the term “may”.

    Joel,Yashendra,Premjit and Sanjoy….I will do answer all your questions..as Islam has an answer to all of them.So please be a little patient.
    Thanks,Zarq

29. Dearest Asif,

    Have you not contacted Jibril as yet to get the logical answers and hard proofs our queries? We’ve heard of people seeing angels, pink elephants, dragons and purple spiders in cases of hallucinations or drunken stupor.

    I am not surprised that you are now into Jew bashing and that you’ve no time to answer our fundamental questions. We’ve encountered many ignoramuses on this and other fora and in daily meetings too. None has been able to answer a single query rationally or by providing the essential proofs. Every nonsense is to be accepted on the basis of blind beliefs.

    Has it rightly been said that LOGIC is the weapon that fanatics fear the most?

    By the way, when is your Judgement Day coming? Do you have any definite date in mind? Pss let me know, I’ll keep it a secret. Ok, Child?

    If your faith in Islam was so perfect, I am sure a pucca believer like you would have had the perfect (intelligible) answers and proofs to our simple questions. Why buy time by giving the Israeli-Hezebollah conflict as an excuse?

    Isn’t the Quran the perfect book revealed to a man in the desert by an angel (whatever that means !!!)?

    So, if the Quran is so perfect, then you and thousands of “believers” like you should have had ready rational asnwers and hard proofs to support your (superstitious) beliefs. Why wait to think, find out or end up fabricating other tales that equal or exceed in irrationality 1400 year old myths of an imaginary angel jumping out of the sky and revealing third hand information to a man!

    How does this basic premise of an angel dictating stale knowledge to a man (Muhammad) sound to modern, thinking, rational audiences? You can not even define an angel and you’re talking about hell, heaven and sex in heaven!!!

    I am laughing….

    LOVE,

    Joel Pastakia

30. Asifbhai,

    You cannot fight 2 wars at the same time….even Hitler lost on 2 fronts. Jokes apart, isnt it strange that the only people fighting with everyone right now are the followers of ISLAM.

    Shias are fighting Sunnis, Mulims are fighting Jews, Hindus, Christians, believers and non-believers. Is there some secret message in this situation?

    Have you ever thought that peace comes only to those who are tolerent and accept diversity?

    Anyway, I do not want to raise any more questions at present. I understand that your plate is full right now and I will wait for the answers to the earlier questions.

    But most importantly, please do not forget to tell us the story of the 72 virgins…..and whether you personally believe in it.

    And has anyone who has blown himself up ever confirmed this tale. I am assuming that they would be able to at least communicate if they can have sex in heaven…..or wherever they are!!!

    Take care..

    With best wishes,

31. Hello friends..I am back…

    Hey…what made you all think that I am scared with having to face all your rotting logic?I posted a comment that please be patient since I have another crisis on another front with an entirely different and I must say,intellectually far more advanced opponent than the present opponents I am facing off in this forum.

    Well all said and done…I have come here with answers to all your “queries” which are not really queries but an effort to malign Islam.Yet the unbiased third person will be dumbfounded that Islam has an answer to such blunt accusations.

    Asif Zarq

32. Well my first answer will be to dear Premjit…to his post on August 6th 2006…

    I fear I have to continue breaking down false myths…

    MYTH#5 MUSLIMS PRONOUNCE THE TRIPPLE TALAQ AND THE POOR WOMAN IS GONE…

    Well firstly let me let u kno the statistics.Professor Gavin of Asia Research Institute,Singapore has come up with the numbers from his extensive study…the rates of divorce among muslims is around 0.67% in India according to him.According to the CIA worldbook..divorce rates in India is a little more than 1%.From these two statistics we can calculate by simple interpolation that divorce rates of hindus(who constitute more than 80%) is around 1.34%.This is exactly the double that of Muslims divorce rate.

    That was an answer from ground realities to your age old often parroted question.It goes on to show that what a restrained and civilized communitiy the Muslims are…..and communities who are up in criticism against Islam have a bigger problem to face down their own societies.The message is simple and clear….stop thinking about the fate of others and try solving your own problems.

    In fact the Muslim divorce is so rare that even a single case gets highlighted and gets the Prime Minister involved!!! like in the Shah Bano divorce case where Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi got involved.There are no parallels among Hindus in this matter.Why? since divorce is not so much concern among Hindus as among Muslims.

    And why is this?

    We will consider this in the light of Islamic religious views..having considered the practical statistics.
    Allah says in the Quran that the divorce is hateful.its the only hateful thing allowed in Islam…since it has practical implications.
    And I am so much surprised that every idoiotic ignorant fool has to comment on the speedy divorce proceedures in Islam…but no one has any time to pay attention to the speedy marraige proceedures in Islam.You can get married in just 15 min…believe me..if you have a woman willing and the money for her meher.Now this is primarily in Islam to prevent vices regarding sex.If marraiges are not satisfactory then generally the partners seek sexual gratification outside their marraige.To prevent such a catastrophic implication to society the laws of marraige and divorce are made easy in Islam.But it has been repeatedly said directly and implied that divorce is very hateful to Allah.And Muslims are committed to their religion and that is why we have the lowest divorce rates not only in India but in the whole world.Hope that answers your question……thanks

    Asif alZarq

33. Joel has raised questions about the hereafter as presented by Islam…well here is the explanation

    The fundamental question is:How can you prove the existence of hereafter, i.e. life after death?

    Hereafter a logical belief

    There are more than a thousand verses in the Glorious Qur’an, containing scientific facts. Many facts mentioned in the Qur’an have been discovered in the last few centuries. But science has not advanced to a level where it can confirm every statement of the Qur’an.

    Suppose 80% of all that is mentioned in the Qur’an has been proved 100% correct. About the remaining 20%, science makes no categorical statement, since it has not advanced to a level, where it can either prove or disprove these statements. With the limited knowledge that we have, we cannot say for sure whether even a single percentage or a single verse of the Qur’an from this 20% portion is wrong. Thus when 80% of the Qur’an is 100% correct and the remaining 20% is not disproved, logic says that even the 20% portion is correct. The existence of the hereafter, which is mentioned in the Qur’an, falls in the 20% ambiguous portion which my logic says is correct.

    Concept of peace and human values is useless without the concept of hereafter

    Is robbing a good or an evil act? A normal balanced person would say it is evil. How would a person who does not believe in the hereafter convince a powerful and influential criminal that robbing is evil?

    Suppose I am the most powerful and influential criminal in the world. At the same time I am an Intelligent and a logical person. I say that robbing is good because it helps me lead a luxurious life. Thus robbing is good for me.

    If anybody can put forward a single logical argument as to why it is evil for me, I will stop immediately. People usually put forward the following arguments:

    a. The person who is robbed will face difficulties………But it is good for me. If I rob a thousand dollars, I can enjoy a good meal at a 5 star restaurant.
    b. Someone may rob you……..But No one can rob me because I am a very powerful criminal and I have many bodyguards.Robbing may be a risky profession for a common man but not for an influential person like me.
    c. The police may arrest you……….I have the police on my payroll. I have the ministers on my payroll.Thus I can evade arrest through my influence.
    d. Its easy money.Some may say its easy money and not hard-earned money…….But If a person has the option of earning money the easy as well as the hard way, any logical person would choose the easy way.
    e. It is against humanity…….This law may be good for the emotional and sentimental people but I am a logical person and I see no benefit in caring for other human beings.
    f. It is a selfish act… It is true that robbing is a selfish act; but then why should I not be selfish? It helps me enjoy life.

    Thus there are no logical explanations against robbing.The same can be said for raping,cheating,murdering.So should we believe that these acts are good….Come on Joel,you behave as you are the only logical person on earth…now persuade this influential robber not to rob through your bullshit logic…..

    Thus we see..that No concept of human values or good and bad without concept of hereafter

    It is clear that without convincing a person about the hereafter, i.e. life after death, the concept of human values and the good or evil nature of acts is impossible to prove to any person who is doing injustice especially when he is influential and powerful.

    And that is where this Hell comes in.The Hell that you poke fun at.It will be filled with men and jinns who are responsible for shattering of the peace of this world.

34. Another question raised repeatedly by you all is whether Hell or for that matter Heaven is a physical place or not.Well it IS a physical place.

    You all will surely agree with two things:
    a)A bad soul will be punished
    b)A dead body cannot be hurt if we strike it

    A physical body can only be hurt (that is punished with pain caused to it) only when a soul is residing in it.When the soul departs from the body , the body ceases to feel pain .Go to the nearest morgue and try kicking a dead body if u dont believe.We can logically conclude that the soul is punished through the body.

    Thus if you believe that the bad and evil soul should be punished in the hereafter then you must agree to my point that this evil soul must be given a body to reside in before it can be punished.And a physical body can be tortured in a physical Hell.There is evidence in the Quran about this.

    Allah say in the Glorious Qur’an:

    “Those who rejectOur signs,
    We shall soonCast into the Fire;
    As often as their skins are roasted through,
    We shall change them for fresh skins,
    That they may taste the penalty:
    For Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise”
    [Al-Qur’an 4:56]

    Hence Allah tells us that those evil souls will have physical bodies which will be roasted in Hellfire and in the process giving pain to the soul for its evil deeds.And not only this…he will be supplied with new skins as soon as his old body is destroyed.

    So I think this question is answered too..
    Thanks..
    Asif alZarq

35. MYTH#6:THE BLACK STONE IN THE HOLY KAABA IS AN IDOL

    What an excellent conjecture!I doubt whether you have any vague idea of Islam or are you just copying your bullshit text from some of the easily available Islam bashing websites that are as easily available as the porn sites.

    The black stone is just a piece of stone in the Holy Kaaba.Its not a deity and it has a very little significance.
    The reason why it is still there is that tradition has that it was the first stone that Abraham found while trying to build the Kaaba.
    There is nothing in the Quran or the hadiths(sayings) of the prophet regarding this stone.

    When Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Caliph, came to kiss the stone, he said, in front of all assembled: “No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone. Had I not seen Allah’s Messenger kissing you, I would not have kissed you.”

    And anyway for anything to be called an idol it must satisfy some characteristics such as devotees should pray to it as the central object of worship,should seek its blessings etc…characteristics which you people attach to the penis of SHIVA.

    It was simply because the followers of Prophet Muhammad(saws) saw his once kiss this black stone that is why it has not been removed from the Kaaba presumably as a mark of respect towards him.Moreover Hajis at the annual Hajj try to kiss it in the same way yet most of them doesnt succed reason being the big crowd.But it doesnt affect Hajj and is just an optional extra.

    So my friends I hope you see through that Islam is something different from Hinduism..there are no traces of Idol worship.No matter how much you try to implicate Islam in false allegations…Islam will remain unscathed…Inshallah…By the will of Allah ..The most Gracious and the Most Merciful..

    Jazakallah Khair..

    Asif alZarq

36. Yashendra…you have stated that “THOUSANDS OF INTELLECTUAL MUSLIMS ARE LEAVING ISLAM”

    Can you please give the source of this previously unheard information?
    Can you please forward their reasons for leaving Islam?

    There may be few so called muslims who are “leaving” the fold of Islam(I doubt when they were ever belonging to the fold of Islam)…we call them Munafiks…or the back stabbers in religion.And this phenomenon is not new for your kind information.In the days of Prophet Muhammad(saws) there were people notable the jews who would convert to Islam and then publicly disown Islam just to spread misconceptions that Islam is not a suitable faith.Yet Islam spread and did so magnificently and remarkably.And it continues to enlighten people and thousand are coming to its fold….and mind it ….I am not as dumb as you so as to state any fact without an unbiased source for the stated information…

    The CIA World Book when commenting on the demography of the United States says that Muslims population is growing at the fastest rate ..and 12 percent of this growth is because of immigration…a whooping 44 percent growth is due to conversions and remaining 44 percent due to breeding.This also contradicts your other saying that Islam is growing through birth rates..and those new converts whom you called illiterates and ignorants, have a much more knowledge base and a broader outlook than you and your folks who keep on harping “Back to Vedas”.

    Your Trinity …Brahma,Vishnu and Shiva are thought to be maifestations of the supreme God Brahman.When I was reading about these characters a line flashed across my mind…”All characters in this film is fictitious.Any resemblance to any person is purely coincidental!!!!”

    I was reading about Brahma…he was supposed to have five heads…had not Shiva cut of his fifth head.Wow..what an infighting amomg God’s manifestations!On top of that the supposedly creator Brahma is unable to recreate his fifth head.Now come to Shiva.He is like the damn Sunny Deol(I doubt if Sunny is Shiva’s umpteenth avatar)..the macho man in the trinity..the supposedly Destroyer.And he is kind enough to drink the poison Halahala to save the entire mankind..but wait….he doesnt take it in…he keeps it in the throat..and that is why he is called Nilkantha(meaning the one with a blue throat,colour of poisoned skin is blue as we all know).So it means that the poison affected him and what keeps him from swallowing is the fear that he will be destroyed by this same poison.

    So what we have in the end?…A creator who is unable to create himself and a destroyer who is fearful of self destruction…not to mention the infighting between them!!!…Your Supreme God’s manifestations have such a great image….keep up folks..it now doesnt take a second for me to realize why you people fail to understand any sane logic.

    And Yashendra…you have written something in your postscript..about Saudi Arabia being the chose country of Allah and yet being the last in the International Maths Olympiad.You know, its simply the wheel of fortume that India is technologically advanced.And Saudi Arabia is not so advanced….
    But when I compare both these countries
    I am forced to admit that Saudi Arabia is of course the Allah’s chosen country.Just lok at it..with all your scientific progress and your drumbeat at the International Maths Olympiad you can hardly raise your per capita income beyond the 700 dollar per year mark…whereas at almost 14000 dollars per year Saudi Arabians are 20 times..I repeat full 20 times greater than you.

    Just consider…a technologically inferior country who as you say carry a 3 out of 240 in the IMO … beats you over 20 times in practical life.Your citizens go there for jobs and opportunities,they dont come to your door.Even the common people there ride in cars only the industrialists in your country can dream of.Even being situated right in the middle of the desert they have everything and you have,when compared to them,nothing.If they are the king,then you are the beggars…
    Now isnt that enough to prove that they are Allah’s chosen country?
    Allah has given them the gift of Oil and Gold.Their Oil will last another 150 years and who knows the wheel of fortune may turn again in their favour this time….and they may again get their position as the world’s leader in scientific knowledge as they had held a few centuries back.
    After all India had all these technological progress in just about 55 years…including the development of nuclear weapons…

    Think about your stupid erroneous perceptions in the light of these above(hard to digest for you I know)facts and figures…

    Jazakallah Khair,
    Asif alZarq

37. And this last post in this series is for Premjit again…

    Well Premjit has an important question…a question I asked myself when I started attending my MBA classes….

    WHY IS IT THAT EVERYONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE MUSLIMS?

    Ofcourse when I checked the facts I found that Muslims were fighting the Israeli Jews in Palestine…the Chinese Buddhists in Xingjiang…the Indian Hindus in Kashmir…the Christian Serbs in Kosovo..the Atheists and Czarists in Russia…..I saw virtually that Islam has a showdown with every other religious community.

    Now when I investigated these other communities I found that they were neither friends of each other ..Christians killed the jews in Germany,The hindus had their problems with the sikh separatists…the buddhists had problems with the christians….but no one was as unique as Islam..in other words it wasnt that any other community was fighting every other community at the same time.

    It drew me towards a hadith(saying) of the Prophet(saws) that “Good and Evil cannot co exist with each other..as long as Islam is on earth Jihad will continue in any part of the earth..Muslims will not get peace from the Kafirs even if they wanted to settle down peacefully”

    Having studied all these facts I concluded that the present showdown depicts..on one side Islam and on the other side ( may or may not be combined) forces of Kufr.

    Now this can only mean two things….Either there are many truths fighting against one falsehood…or one truth fighting against many falsehoods….Judging is now easy for the unbiased third person..there cannot be more than one truth…..
    So the present wars against Islam on all possible fronts is also a proof of its truth.

    So Premjit if Hitler lost the war on 2 fronts …the reason is not that he was fighting on 2 fronts..the reason is that he was fighting for his own selfish gains and not for Islam or good.Muslims are permitted to fight and take up arms only against the evil and the oppressors…

    Bye for the time being friends……

    I will soon check back and you may post as many queries for me ..I will always come back to answer them back..since this is my mission..to restore the image of Islam and clear misconceptions surrounding it…to frustrate attempts to malign its image

    Jazakallah Khair
    Zarq

38. Daer All,

    The Muslims are fighting with people of every community and also among themselves what with Sunnis, Shias, Ahmediyas and Wahabis at each other’s throats. This usually happens with those possessing juvenile and fictional ideas about the laws of Existence. Delusions about the nature of Truth manifest themselves in argumentative clashes; without the least proofs or sensible reasons, a Muslim like Asif Boy, blindly swallows tales of how an angel (?) jumped down from heaven (?) and then went on to narrate some old information alongwith lots of cock-and-bull stories about creation out of nothing, 7 heavens being piled one on top of the other above the carpet-like earth with lamps hanging from the first heaven, how out of smoke (dukhaan) arose the universe due to a fiat from some god called Allah (a Sanskrit word) who resides out of the universe or in the clouds, how an ape jumped out of a rock and became a prophetess, how Sulaiman talked with ants, how Muhammad rode a winged horse into the aerial heavens and so on…Then, these myths apart, there is no archaeological or other forms of hard historical proof to show that Ibrahim, Adam, Moosa, Isa, ever existed….

    Naturally, cock and bull stories revolving around a mythical creature like an angel’s revelations are going to damage the mind-emotion-body balance of Muslims and coupled with this is the excessive in-breeding that goes on in the Muslim community that is responsible for choking up and damaging their genes which has showed up in deficiencies of all kinds in most Muslims.

    Not a single Muslim nation is advanced in any creative field, they rank last in every way. On the contrary, Islamic theocracies have made it compulsory for Muslims and non-Muslims in their lands to believe that fictional entities like angels, jinns, houris exist and that the Quran was the product of one such angel called Jibril, etc, etc, etc.

    A religion that bases itself on a claim to superiority on the teachings of mythical characters like angels and jinns can not even be considered to be a sensible philosophy!

    By the way, algebra, astronomy, surgery, chemistry,aeraunautics, etc had their beginning in India thousands of years ago. The Arabs translated ancient Sanskrit texts and adapted the knowledge and gave it to the Europeans in turn. Every scholarly proof exists to verify this statement of mine.

    PS: Asif, Israel is winning the war not because of a trick of your god Allah as you’ve stupidly said but because the Jewish nation is superior to all the Arab nations in every constructive field. I wonder what your Allah is doing these days as lakhs of backward Muslims are getting slaughtered around the world and what with Muslim nations being way behind every other “infidel” nation in science, technology, healthcare, education, philosophy, etc.

    Happy dreaming, Asif.

    We would like to hear other Islamic cock and bull stories from you as it helps us to relax after a hard day’s work (eg, the temperature in hell, the source of fuel to keep those hellfires burning eternally, the vital statistics of the sexy houris in heaven, the duration of an orgasm in heaven, the organs which you’ll need in heaven by which you’ll couple with the houris, the way you’ll excrete after eating honey and drinking milk from the rivers flowing in your heaven, etc).

    Regards,

    Yashendra

39. Mr Asif,

    Vedic philosophy is based on the provable laws of Cosmic Consciousness; everything, including physical matter, is considered an expression of Cosmic Consciousness (Chit Shati) , Chit Shakti itself arises from Brahman (Absolute Consciousness). This is very logical and does not disobey scientific laws of conservation, causeand effect, evolution, etc. Islam preaches creation out of nothing as Mr Joel has said. This creation out of nothing by some unproven god called Allah is pure fiction. It is not possible to create something out of nothing. Now, with our Vedas that take Cosmic Consciousness as the material and functional basis of everything, colourful metaphors such as 5-headed cosmic power Brahma, Shive drinking poison, etc were made up to explain in simple mannner the actual movements of the various planes of Cosnciousness in cosmos and how they manifest from a single source and how they relate and function with each other.

    Consciousness is a provable fact that even quantum physics asserts; today physicists say that the universe is nothing but Consciousness-Field force in manifestation. So, there is every proof to validate the philosophy of the Vedas.

    But what about Quran? Not a word about cosmic consciousness, cause-effect, conservation, etc. It has only illogical stories of creation out of nothing, mythical creatures like angels giving messages, heavens in sky or don’t know where, virgins in heaven, milk in heaven, -all fiction as Joel says. This fiction forms basis of Islam.

    Prabha Ghate

40. An important question hurled at Muslims repeatedly is that Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

    Answer:

    This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

    Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’:

    1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’

    A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science.

    2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same

    One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect.

    3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist

    I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.

    4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’

    According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes.

    According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’.

    Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist.

    5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist

    Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.

    6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’

    Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

    It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly.

    7. Islam means peace

    Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

    Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.

    So now this issue is resolved….
    Albeit I think people who have a habit of judging everything in the Saffron light will hardly be satisfied …. Folks its time to change your ideas and see that what you oppose is Peace….

    No other religion names itself in such a way as Islam..
    Christianity…the followers of Christ
    Hinduism….fragmented religion of people living in the land beyond Indus(root for Hindu.ism being added in the modern English dictionary)
    Buddhism….followers of Gautama Buddha

    and so on..

    only Islam means peace..no other religion has its name as peace.Isnt that a fact to reckon with?
    Think about it….

    Thanks,
    Asif alZarq

41. Hello friends……

    There is another repeated misconception forwarded against Islam..that it is a divisive force.Proponents of this theory cite as examples the exixtence of different schools of thoughts in Islam..the Shias,the Sunnis,the Wahabis,etc etc etc…

    Well…ISLAM has nothing to do with these….its a man made divisions which are in fact shunned by Islam in the strongest terms..and its also the reason why Muslims fail to understand that their backwardness have something to do with these sectarian strifes which prevents a view of the real values that Islam stresses upon…The following points will illustrate my point

    1. Muslims Should be United

    It is a fact that Muslims today, are divided amongst themselves. The tragedy is that such divisions are not endorsed by Islam at all. Islam believes in fostering unity amongst its followers.

    The Glorious Qur’an says:

    “And hold fast,
    All together, by the rope
    Which Allah (stretches out for you),
    and be not divided among yourselves;”
    [Al-Qur’an 3:103]

    Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Besides saying ‘hold fast all together’ it also says, ‘be not divided’.

    Qur’an further says,

    “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger”
    [Al-Qur’an 4:59]

    All the Muslim should follow the Qur’an and authentic Ahadith and be not divided among themselves.

    2. It is Prohibited to make sects and divisions in Islam

    The Glorious Qur’an says:

    “As for those who divide
    Their religion and break up
    Into sects, thou hast
    No part in them in the least:
    Their affair is with Allah:
    He will in the end
    Tell them the truth
    Of all that they did.”
    [Al-Qur’an 6:159]

    In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects.

    But when one asks a Muslim, “who are you?”, the common answer is either ‘I am a Sunni, or ‘I am a Shia’. Some call themselves Hanafi, or Shafi or Maliki or Humbali. Some say ‘I am a Deobandi’, while some others say ‘I am a Barelvi’.

    3. Our Prophet was a Muslim

    One may ask such Muslims, “Who was our beloved prophet (pbuh)? Was he a Hanafi or a Shafi, or a Humbali or a Maliki?” No! He was a Muslim, like all the other prophets and messengers of Allah before him.

    It is mentioned in chapter 3 verse 52 of Al-Qur’an that Jesus (pbuh) was a Muslim.

    Further, in chapter 3 verse 67, Al-Qur’an says that Ibrahim (pbuh) was not a Jew or a Christian but was a Muslim.

    4. Qur’an says call yourselves Muslim

    If anyone poses a Muslim the question who are you, he should say “I am a MUSLIM, not a Hanafi or a Shafi”. Surah Fussilat chapter 41 verse 33 says
    “Who is better in speech
    Than one who calls (men)
    To Allah, works righteousness,
    And says, ‘I am of those
    Who bow in Islam (Muslim)?’ “
    [Al-Qur’an 41:33]

    The Qur’an says “Say I am of those who bow in Islam”. In other words, say, “I am a Muslim”.

    The Prophet (pbuh) dictated letters to non-Muslim kings and rulers inviting them to accept Islam. In these letters he mentioned the verse of the Qur’an from Surah Ali Imran chapter 3 verse 64:
    Say ye: “Bear witness
    That we (at least)
    Are Muslims (bowing
    To Allah’s Will).”
    [Al-Qur’an 3:64]

    5. Respect all the Great Scholars of Islam

    We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Humbal and Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with them all). They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hardwork. One can have no objection if someone agrees with the views and research of Imam Abu Hanifa or Imam Shafi, etc. But when posed a question, ‘who are you?’, the reply should only be ‘I am a Muslim’.

    Some may argue by quoting the hadith of our beloved Prophet from Sunan Abu Dawood Hadith No. 4579. In this hadith the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My community will be split up into seventy-three sects.”

    This hadith reports that the prophet predicted the emergence of seventy-three sects. He did not say that Muslims should be active in dividing themselves into sects. The Glorious Qur’an commands us not to create sects. Those who follow the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith, and do not create sects are the people who are on the true path.

    According to Tirmidhi Hadith No. 171, the prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said, “My Ummah will be fragmented into seventy-three sects, and all of them will be in Hell fire except one sect.” The companions asked Allah’s messenger which group that would be. Where upon he replied, “It is the one to which I and my companions belong.”

    The Glorious Qur’an mentions in several verses, “Obey Allah and obey His Messenger”. A true Muslim should only follow the Glorious Qur’an and the Sahih Hadith. He can agree with the views of any scholar as long as they conform to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sahih Hadith. If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be.

    If only all Muslims read the Qur’an with understanding and adhere to Sahih Hadith, Inshallah most of these differences would be solved and we could be one united Muslim Ummah

    Thanks…
    alZarq Asif

42. Dear Asif,

    Instead of profusely quoting illogical and unverifiable verses from the Quran and making it a bigger laughing stock, why don’t you begin by giving us sound reasons and hard proofs to support the declarations given in the Quran on hell, heaven, soul, etc? Can you prove a thing? Or give rational answers?

    Stop making a fool of yourself, give us rational answers and evidences.

    By the way, if heaven or hell is a physical place as you assume, then, obviously, your heaven can not be a spiritual place that innately guarantees supernatural powers and immortality to the disembodied souls entering there.

    If as the Quran and you ignorantly assume that heaven is a physical place, then naturally it follows that heaven is governed by physical laws -the same that govern the physical universe.

    But, under the sway of the physical laws, neither can one achieve immortality (as everything that comes to birth decays and dies) nor can unfermented or fermented rivers of milk, honey or wine flow in a physical place, neither can one physically function in a physical place without organs (hands, feet, digestive system, reproductive and excretory systems or respiratory system).

    So, in your physical heaven somewhere up in the sky, how could a bodiless soul function? How can rivers of milk/honey/wine flow? How could a formless, non-physical soul, in the absence of physical organs/nervous system/muscular system/reproductive system/endocrine system, function? By the way, where is your physical heaven located?

    Can you give the date of Judgement Day?

    To say that the soul grows a new physical body in your physical heaven is a crude conjecture.

    Do you have actual proofs to show how in your physical heaven a disembodied soul acquires a new physical body to function?

    Can you prove that there exists within the boundaries of our closed physical cosmos a physical heaven in which the physical laws are blatantly violated? Can you prove that creation out of nothing is possible? Can you demonstrate the existence of angels?

    Do all this first before dumping your Islamic gibberish on others!

    PS: Saudi has been blessed by the god Allah with a most polluting, non-renewable resource – crude oil (that’ll run out within 70 years). With western technology, the oil is being drilled, refined, stored, transported. Why didn’t Allah bless the Arabs with brains to develop the sophisticated technology needed to mine petroleum? It beats me. The Arabs are living temporarily luxurious lives due to the oil that’s being mined by western companies using western technologies. After the oil runs out, Saudi and other Arab lands will once again be reduced to penury. Having no intellectual capital to harness, the poor dumb Saudis will be ignored by the west then and will be easily conquered or bombed out of existence.

    To even compare Saudi with an intellectual giant like India shows your intellectual poverty. India and China are the emerging scientific, economic superpowers of tomorrow. Does Saudi have anything remotely comparable to our famed IITs, TIFR, BARC, ISRO, IIM, IISc, etc? Can Saudi attract the volumes of foreign investments that India and China are getting from the world’s best companies? Can Saudi manufacture even a toothpaste on its own?

    Saudi Arabia is a parasite nation living off the technological inventions of the West. The West will use Saudi like a condom as long as the oil lasts, then dump it or conquer the impoverished Saudis.

    The Sultan and businessmen of Saudi Arabia are already preparing to flee Saudi Arabia once the oil is over and are busy ammassing wealth so as to buy safe passages to the west or elsewhere. They know well enough that once the oil wells run dry, the western nations will dump it, no longer will these parasites be able to live lavishly nor will they be able to compete intellectually with successful nations. That day is not far off. This harsh fact is known to all.

    Asif, as the Black Stone in the Kaaba is not sacred though Muhammad hugged, kissed and wept over it, then let’s call for its destruction. Why preserve a worthless stone pillar, circumbualte it, bow before it when, as you say, it holds no spiritual significance? Let’s throw the Black Stone out of the Kaaba. Ok?

    Finally, you talk tall about SOUL. Let’s get its definition from the Quran. What exactly do you mean by soul? Of what materials and forces is it composed of? How was it manufactured? How does it enter the body? Through what and how does it exit the body? How does soul connect with mind, emotions and physical matter? How does the bodiless soul, after death, acquire a new physical body in your (fictional)physical heaven or hell? Are there physical parents in your physical heaven who sexually produce a body for the disembodied soul to enter so that it can be born in heaven? GIVE ME THE PRECISE MECHANISMS, SUPPORTING RATIONAL REASONS AND PROOFS.

    Bye for now,

    Joel

43. Joel…

    Unverifiable verses????Well dear billions of people have verified these verses.Do you think that you are the greatest intellectual verifier of Quranic verses…You want to expound the myth that you know all about the Quran..its history,each and every of its verses and the traditions and Hadiths associated with them..I must then applaud you as a great scholar of Islam …is it the fact?Surely not…since if that had been the fact we all would have had you in the news and as a known figure.Today whoever is a commentor on Islam,positive or negative…are all well known persons.This atleast proves that you are as ignorant of the Quran as your mentors who write all those stupid things about Islam without even trying to verify that what they are saying is correct or not..whether it conforms to Islamic standards or not…making a laughing stock of their comments…Muslims know these tactics very well since they are not new…and people like you have been there through centuries…

    The people in this forum can easily judge that the likes of you harp more on trying to prove that others religions are false…my religion Islam and its truth,already verified by billions of people,compels me to establish it as the only correct religion…and that is expected and understandable since I am a Muslim.But your religion,Hinduism or whatever it is,clearly asks you to attack others beliefs and that too by false propositions that do not stand ground…which is why your comments centre about proving that Islam and the Quran are false(Astagferullah!).I think in the beginning you tried to prove that how tolerant Hindus are..that they never try to persuade others into their beliefs…but your actions seem to be just the opposite ..you try by all means to falsify Islam…thus it can mean two things..either you are not a devout Hindu OR that your religion Hinduism favours attacks on other faiths…by your comments in favour of Hinduism you prove yourself to be a devout follower of hinduism…hence it is clearly proved that your attacks against Islam is a teaching of your religion and since this contradicts your earlier statements that Hindus never attack others…it only goes on to prove that you are a liar whose only motto is not to discuss religion but to malign Islam by any means….even if they are illogical and baseless.And since you are a devout Hindu…by an extension your religion is also a damn lie..

    The biggest fool in this Forum…you ask to prove the existence of Allah..of Heaven and Hell…the date of judgement day…etc.

    Any religion is based on faith…if you really see Hell..do you think you will remain a Hindu…you will automatically convert to Islam.

    The creator of this world wanted to test every individual soul by sending him to this world…and test whether he believes in Allah without seeing Him…you all must admit that you were not given the choice of whether to be born or not..whether to come to this world or not..Islam says exactly this same thing …that men and jinns have been sent to the world only to worship Allah…note the word “sent” meaning that we didnt have the choice of coming or not
    coming……Islam views the world as a place where humans are put to test by giving them free will..whether they do good deeds or bad deeds..and accordingly they are sent to heaven or Hell…

    Joel finds all these propositions very bad for society…what a conjecture..you try to falsify a religion which is in favour of an equitable and just society and which enjoins upon its followers to do good and gives them hope of reward in the hereafter and also tries to desist them from bad deeds with a punishment for it….If this is a bad idea then what alternative do you have ???

    Clearly..there is no answer..

    Thus if the life of a man is a test and the world his examination Hall,..then we can have only the question paper before us…we cannot have the answer sheet supplied to us.If we see Hell and its fires..then we all will become good..and there will be no merit left in the test for the soul…the purpose of Allah to test us will be defeated.Hence we cannot see the Hell or its punishment in the living world.So please stop all your nonsense talk about the composition of Hell and how it will be hosting the souls…

    By such talk you just tend to make yourself look like a clown…ignorant,unimportant,valueless,illogical person.

    You make me laugh again when you hold up the examples of IITs and IIMs.Do you know the fact that India faces a crises what is known as “Brain Drain”.Most of the graduates of these institutions find plush jobs in foreign countries..mainly the USA…and these same giant corporations come back to India and invest millions ..but wait..they take back much much more than what they invest..are you talking about these investment which rob India of all her limited resources..slowly driving her to penury..see the median salary of Indian engineers..its just hovering around 5000 mark…with inflation around 6 percent p.a what value does this salary have not to speak of the thousands of engineers who sit at home with their degrees.
    Do you know that MSc holders are becoming rickshaw pullers in India?
    Do you know that India has the world’s largest number of jobless MBA’s?
    Do you know that there has been a record increase in the number of suicides among graduates?

    This is your stark reality…a reality in which the technical achievements of Indian sciences have failed to reach its people…it has hardly percolated the layers of the high class.
    You presume that the saudis dont know how to manufacture tooth pastes…goes on to show how ignorant you are..last month itself the Saudi scientists have unveiled a robot which has almost all the capabilities of a Japanese robot launched earlier in 2005..Dont underestimate anyone…

    And the Indian companies are at a loss fighting their Chinese counterparts who somehow happen to sell everything at a lower price.Just see your landscape…its dotted with KFC’s and HSBC’s….you are at a loss dear…soon the whole of the Indian population will be at a mercy of foreign giant corporations..and its not my view alone…Amartya Sen..the noted economist and Nobel prize winner has the same view.

    So at the end you have a economy subject to a neo clonialism of MNC’s…Compare with hard facts that the BSE,the nation’s main Stock Exchange went down 4000 points roughly in 1 week..thanks to the withdrawl of much of the FDI you boasted so much in your post.Do you know how many thousands of Indian investors lost valuable money to foreign companies?

    Deplore your situation ..but that is not feasable given that your whole time goes on to Islam bashing.

    O you brainless kids…when will you see reality?

    Another thing…technological improvements does not itself guarantee that your society is good…look at Russia…it has a much larger arsenal and lot more technologies…yet poor poor Russia is now struggling to keep itself from falling apart…not to speak of the facelosses it had recently in every international forum.You need the religion of peace to stabilize your society..which neither Hinduism nor Atheism provides.

    And You came up with wrong findings…the oil of Saudi Arabia will last for another 150 years and not 70 years as claimed by you.And if oil is so polluted for you..then why do you all hanker after the Arabian nations ..an oil embargo against india will send its businesses reeling…do you know that?It had been proved in the 1973 Oil crises where a joint embargo on Oil had most of the World economies into recessions.

    If in the mediaval world when there was no easy access to knowledge..Islam could inspire the Arabians to seek knowledge and science and which took them in 100 years to own the biggest empire of the Earth at that time..and to establish Universities and learning centers which were unmatched in their period…..So what makes you think Joel that in the next 30 years or so these same Arabians will remain the same backward class that you choose to describe them as…Do you know that a whole new generation of Arabians spend their time in American,Australian,British and French Universities?When this generation comes back home..do you expect the Arabians to remain in the same state?Of course not.And remember..these people are the fore runners of Islam…not like your people …who would go to the US,change names marry a prostitute,gain a green card and shun their country,people and even their parents..

    Again…you prove yourself a fool since you fail to understand my point about the Black Stone.I doubt if you have ever read my posts clearly or whether you are interested only in your bullshit talk about something you dont know about ….

    So I have to make you understand by a simpler logic as I should have explained to a kid…you seem to be no better than one..

    Suppose you have a son…and he dies early..he was your only son…Then what will you do?Most parents in such a situation will tend to preserve all their son’s belongings and whatever he used during his lifetime….as a token of his memory.
    So also the black stone is a token memory of my Prophet(saws)’s kissing it…Why should I throw it out?

    At present the only things that should be thrown out are the idols from your temples.You want to retain them as sources of concentration..I doubt how much concentration will sexy Parvati offer …

    The only exception to this rule can be Godess Kali..but yet caution…keep her hidden from a negro’s view else a rape case might have to be lodged in the nearest police station in favour of this godess!!!

    Bye
    Asif Zarq

44. Joel,
    Nice way to hide the falsity in your religion.But deal all..just use this material to propose the Hindu hardliners to scroll down from their positions in India…they were also supposedly following your Vedic philosophy….and tell thim not to arise the Satanic “chit shakti” in their blind and misled followers so that Muslims in different parts of India can live in peace and not face the pogroms as in Gujarat….

    And if you correctly note the position of Jews throughout their history of existence then you will note that they are under a wrath of Allah.Allah says in the Quran that the Jews have failed in their promise of worship and as such they will never be allowed to live in the Promised Land in peace which Allah had bestowed upon them after saving them from Pharaoh.

    Hence throughout history we see that Jews were repeatedly displaced from Jerusalem at the hands of the Byzantium,Roman empires,then by the Muslims and again by the crusaders of Europe and still today when they have established their Jewish state ..they have no peace.When they were slaugtered by Hitler,they rose to the heights in commerce in Europe.Again they are reaching similar heights in Israel but then again their curse will follow them wherever they go.
    And dont think Israel is surviving on its own..the bunker bursting bombs and its missiles and the naval warship designs and its nuclear facilities are all a product of American support,help and nourishment.The day we have an anti Semitic governbment their in the USA..this so called Israel will fall as a pack of cards.Just claiming two victories in 1948 and 1967 they think that they have won over history.But 1973 war showed that their army can be defeated too…and so the Sinai Region went back to the Egyptians.And the present war shows that a disciplined contingent of 1200 Hezbollah fighters are able to hold off entire contingents of the Israeli army numbering no less than 30000.Come on guys wake up..with a nuclear Pakistan and an almost nuclear Iran and in the decades to come we will Inshallah have many nuclear armed Islamic countries to reckon with
    …these will discourage the enemies of Islam from interfering with its matters.And conventional forces will no longer be able to save America’s puppet in Israel.Its days are numbered.And Hindus here in India dont rejoice..The rise of Muslims is a near future…dont forget that communities lagging behind in history have come out as superpowers repeatedly

    *All those kicked out of Europe went on to establish the Americas which saved them from Hitler’s conquestial designs.

    *The Jews were slaughtered ..the greatest slaughter to be faced by any community…6 million of them…heralded back as the same powerful traitor as had been Hitler

    *Indians reeling under the most brutal and oppressive regime of 200 years of British rule stood back on its feet to become a nuclear power.

    Hundreds of such examples can be recounted as such…you are fools to reckon only the present.The present backwardness of Muslims is just a prelude to the new revolution among them which will have an impact here in India and elsewhere in the world.And we have still not forgotten the 700 years rule of India by Islam…55 years under sqabbling corrupted polititians and a dead democracy you take pride in..these are not enough to disprove the fact that Hindus have a slave like mentality which had been exposed again and again in history and is being considerably exposed even as we talk about Vedas in this forum…just use your bullshit to convince the masses of your people to try living a dignified life under the present system of your society…..

    You rejoice at the anarchy in Muslim countries due to internal revolutions…but you fail to understand that Muslims have an inherent nature of resisting corruption and not living with it as their faith Islam orders them to shun all types of corruption and fight against it.
    But you and your coward lot wil not understand this…you are happy to live under corrupt politicians,exploitative police,gunda raaj and the religious leadership of those corrupt Swamis who end up in Jails!Your corruption evrywhere is so rampant that every film released in India has this as their central theme..and they are a huge success too. But I think Joel will protest saying that Hindus are “tolerant” so they prefer not to wake up to such grave self destructive situations…bloody cowardice is what you all have in your veins.You can just slay unarmed women and children as in Gujarat,that too with state political and police support,try doing it on your own guts if you have the courage.I presume that they too had learnt the Vedas and “enlightened” themselves on how to perform mass murders and how to rape women and throw children into fire.

    And you want to know the vital statistics of the houris..All I can say is that I have never seen them and neither such explicit sexually satisfactory fantasy stories exist in Islam..since Islam and its texts are not the likes of KAMASUTRA..well why dont look into your temples for your extra sexual energy to be dissipated?The Hindu Goddesses such as Parvati and Lakshmi are quite sexy and wear revealing dresses and I presume will be enough to arise a weak orgasm in you after your “hard day’s work”!And as for me..I would prefer to believe in the chastity of Sita…the ignorant Ram would never believe in it and send her repeatedly through tests..if he had been in modern days he would have carried out vaginal tests of Sita…but I as a muslim would believe in the modesty of Sita as we have far greater respect for women than you and your so called Gods..I would convert Sita to Islam and keep her as my beautiful wife.Hanumaan may come along with his protests but given the coward and corrupt nature of Hindus it would be enough for me to bribe him with a pair of bananas!!!

    And Joel please stop being a coward and coming out in this forum with different names as Prabha Ghate and Sanjoy Parkar….People need solid logic and hard facts to stand upon …not a greter number of names forwarding your vague and incomplete view…I doubt if Yashendra and premjit are different people too..or just your “avatar”…

    Thanks all,
    Asif Zarq

45. I challenge you Joel and your clones to come up with a Vedic solution to India’s problems…

    If you can do so..then show your face over here….but if you cannot..and of a surety you cannot..then just keep the Hell out of here..

    Search it all life…yet you will never find it…the only solution is the mass conversion to Islam…the only way to prosperity.

    Bye for now,
    Asif

46. Joel/Yashendra/Sanjoy/Prabha: Do you all live together or are you one person?

    Asif, Joel and others: Take this discussion elsewhere. Start your own blog, website or forum and write whatever you want there.

47. Dear Asif and Zack,

    Joel, Prabha, Yashendra and Sanjoy are not one person but individuals in their own right. We are part of a group that interests itself in bursting myths – be it Islamic, Hindu, Christian, Zoroastrian or Judaic. We sound alike as we meet regularly (residing as we do on one campus). Our tone, vocabulary and thoughts may come across as similar since we brainstorm on an almost daily basis – that’s infectious and may have turned us into clones! I assure you whatever I’ve divulged is true. Premajit is not part of our group.

    Love,

    Joel

48. CONCLUDING MESSAGE:

    Friends,

    It’s now been proved beyond doubt that Asif is not only an irrational Muslim fanatic but an anti-national character. Perhaps, he’s part of the banned SIMI or an ISI agent.

    Even if he’s not, Asif is clearly against his own beloved motherland, India, from whose bosom has flowed the highest knowledge that has inspired and feed every religion, science, art and philosophy. Even the old Arabic texts acknowledge their source of information – India.

    It truly saddens me to learn that a person can reduce himself to such degraded depths that he hates his own motherland and harbours the worst illusions about Truth and though he accuses others of wanting to foist their individual religious ideas on the world, yet, Asif, too, is no different as he desires that the world be converted to his perverted way of thinking.

    Has he not understood the universal plan that has Unity underlying Diversity as its basis?

    How can one form of religion, philosophy, art or culture capture the whole of humanity when human natures are so diverse? Is it not apparent that each religion, though fundamentally united at the base, caters to different mindsets? The Vedanta, for instance, has become the delight of mystics, intellectuals and quantum physicists, Islam is admired for its loyalty, determination and brotherhood it inspires in people, Christianity for its servicefulness, Buddhism for its emphasis on compassion.

    Different human types may find a religion suited to their unique temperament. But, one can’t be under the false impression that all human beings, irrespective of their proclivities, can be forced to follow one particular stream of thought and practice. Will Nature allow it? No.

    Several attempts were made by ignorant people and fanatics in the past (and in the present too) to compel all people to adopt a singular system of thought or practice but every time their crude attempts have been thwarted by Nature as Diversity (with an underlying Unity) is the explicit theme of Nature on every plane of Existence. Thus, fanatical attempts to impose only this or only that way of life have always failed and will always fail.

    Those like Asif who have not the least proof or a single rational answer to a single pertinent query and blinded by their bigotry will always see otherwise without understanding this critical plan of Nature on every scale upto the Absolute Source.

    Asif, if you hate India so much, why don’t you shift to Pakistan or Saudia Arabia and partake of their rich fruits (of high wisdom ?) in religion, science, technology?

    Many grads from IIT, our friends, have taken up plum jobs in Saudia and have all the same story to recount – they are shocked at the extremely low standards in their respective scientific disciplines there (though they’re enjoying the inflated payscales and prestige).

    In Saudia, an IIT graduate commands such great respect from the awed Arabs that even a last ranker from any of the IITs is given first preference over toppers from Saudi technical colleges and are even welcomed more that the US trained Saudis. (Most Saudi nationals studying in the US are accepted in C or D grade universities and are accepted by these US universities because they pay for their education and do not depend on scholarships but where talent is concerned, well, we know what to expect). How many Nobel laureates or Field Medal or IMO or IPhO or IChO winners has Saudia produced? Not one. Whatever they have is borrowed from others, their institutions are flooded with foreigners running the show for them, home talent is almost zero! Apart from the phallic stone in the Kaaba, they have nothing to boast about.

    I’d asked Asif to support the idea that demands that the black stone be thrown out from the Kaaba as it’s a worthless bit of clay. He refuses for sentimental reasons as his prophet hugged, kissed and wept over this worthless phallic stone.

    Not surprisingly, a recent international survey, that the Times of India commented upon in a lead editorial, revealed that Saudi Arabia is home to the world’s largest number of phallus lovers. I mean homosexuals and that Saudi men watch gay porn the maximum when compared to men in other nations!!!

    We understand, Asif. Some symbols are worth retaining though they’re worthless. At least the worthless Kaaba stone is real, visible and tangible but not Allah or the sexy houris or the jinns or the boiling water in hell or the river of milk in heaven or Jibril. What and where are they?

    Some tribal pagan installed the stone in the Kaaba; we know not if Ibrahim existed or not as there’s no archaelogical/historical proof to support such an assumption. By the way, Ibrahim, is a corrupted form of the Sanskrit Brahma (the Conscient Cosmic Creative Expansiveness).

    We, engineering students, didn’t know that Saudi Arabia was advanced in robotics or even in animal husbandry. We would like to find out more about their “world class” excellence in the high-end field of robotics, can you provide us with the technical details so that we can pronounce our verdict?..psstt Saudi scientists do not publish research papers in international journals (at least we’ve never seen their names or heard of a single Saudi scientist or engineer of average or high repute)….Does Saudi have advanced research facilities in nuclear science and engg, computer science, space science, robotics, cybernetics, genetics, quantum physics? Can you tell us, Asif? We know the answer but let’s see what you have to say. We and the faculty are waiting. If as you say the Saudis have made a world class robot (?), then next they ought to make a supercomputer or send a mission into space, what say?

    Boy, today even Vietnam, North Korea and Portugal have made ordinary robots that are claimed to be world class.

    PS: Asif, you don’t know how the houris look or know nothing about their vital statistics or material-force constitution or abode of dwelling, yet you believe they exist? You’re a genius, Asif.

    We invite you to be part of the teams of the truly world class and talented teaching and research faculty at IIT or better still at MIT in the US (there too you’ll find scores of ex-IITians not Saudis). But, Asif, I guess, you’d prefer to do cutting edge research in a “world class” Saudi University? Does any such world class Saudi university exist?

    Love, Joel

49. Assalam wa Alaikum…
    Well Zack …first of all I should ask you a question…if this blog was for just guessing about the Muslim population of India…why did you allow comments which stray from the original topic?
    And when certain section of the commentators violated their moral rights to attack other religions how can you expect the defenders of that religion to remain quiet?
    So before asking me to move to another forum you try to control the contents of the submitted posts..and defer from displaying any stray topic…
    Jazakallah Khair,
    Asif alZarq

50. Joel….you and your friends try to burst the myths of so many religions.I believe you all are tech guys.So where do you all find time to study so many religions?It just goes on to show that you study religions in your leisure time..and that can be only superficial given that good religious commentators,from any religion,have spent entire lives in studying their religions.

    No doubt a half hearted study can only result in erroneous judgements…as you prove repeatedly in this forum…

    Zarq

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