Previous Posts in my series on marriage: Cousin marriage, forced marriage in Pakistan, forced marriage in Islam.
I had completely forgotten about completing this series until I saw Yasmine comment on Abez’s blog (no permalinks; look up the June 10 post titled “How I Own 1/7th of Riaz’s heart”).
Although Western socities tend to deride arranged marriages as backward and uncivilized and primitive, there do exist positive aspects. For example, Westerners focus more on the physical aspect of relationships, and are thus obsessed with love, sex, beauty, etc. As a result, people get married based on these factors and then get disenchanted with one another very easily. The divorce rate in Western countries such as the U.S. has skyrocketed. […]In contrast, Eastern cultures that practice arranged marriages place far more emphasis on the practical, such as integrity, diligence, ambition, humility, generosity, etc. People get married based on practical reasons, and work on building affection later. Strong characteristics like the ones described above are very conducive to building love and affection in Eastern marriages. As a result, these marriages are much longer-lasting than many Western marriages (at least, based on what i’ve seen so far). It’s BECAUSE the primary emphasis is NOT on love, sex, and physical beauty that arranged marriages are usually so successful, because the spouses get to know one another on a practical level first, looking beyond trivial issues such as beauty or lack thereof.
And, of course, i know it can go both ways: there ARE many arranged marriages that are just total hell, and there are marriages that started out based only on infatuation and grew stronger as time passed. But I think as long one as looks for the right characteristics in a potential spouse, then, arranged marriage or not, ‘s all good.
I won’t reply to her points directly but a discussion of the similar ideas comes later in this post.
First, we need to consider what an arranged marriage is. It is basically a marriage which is arranged by someone other than the couple themselves, usually their parents. It encompasses a lot of different varieties: the harshest arranged marriages are almost forced upon the bride or groom while the most liberal ones start with just an introduction of the coouple through their parents and the rest is up to the couple.
Traditionally in arranged marriages, the decision is made by the parents of the couple and they have to abide by that decision. It was quite likely that they would see each other for the first time after their wedding. These marriages are still prevalent though in lesser numbers than the past. I know quite a few people who are actually proud that they did not meet with their spouse before marriage and married a total stranger. Another thing that I have heard happen is that the parents are usually so confident of their child agreeing to whoever they arrange their marriage with that they don’t bother asking for their opinion before finalizing the proposal. The guy or girl is then left with little choice but to agree.
Then there is the emotional pressure or even emotional blackmail. Parents beseech their children to agree to a proposal before they die or make use of other emotional pressures. A very mild example is shown in this Washington Post article:
But the Patels didn’t drop the idea [of going to India from the US to look for a groom for their daughter], and Indian daughters hesitate to defy their parents. Many times her mother had prepared vegetarian meals for Vibha while she was away at college, and her father had driven nearly five hours to Blacksburg to deliver them, then turned around and headed home — how could she now dismiss their wishes? Her father’s eldest brother, dying in a nearby hospice with the whole family gathered around, yearned to see her engaged — shouldn’t she give him this final pleasure?
The more liberal arranged marriages nowadays are called “semi-arranged marriage,” or “arranged introduction” by some people. Here, the process starts with the parents but the guy and girl have input as well and the final decision is the couple’s. That’s why some proponents of arranged marriage say that it is no different than your mom setting you up on a date. However, there is a huge difference.
They [the parents] run ads, canvass Web sites, put the word out on the community grapevine: Dad’s aunt knows a nice Bengali family in Atlanta whose nephew is an electrical engineer. Mom’s medical school classmate in Detroit has a cousin with a single daughter working with computers in Bangalore.
After their parents perform due diligence — Hindu marriages are considered a union of two families, not merely two individuals, so bloodlines and reputations matter — the children meet and spend time together and decide whether their relationship has a future. A voluntary process, no different from having your friends fix you up, the fixed-up like to say.
But it is different. Families —- many of whom disapprove of or forbid dating —- don’t want to introduce their kids to someone to hang out with or move in with; they want a wedding, and soon. Vinay’s relatives think that after he’s spent three or four evenings with a woman, he ought to know: She’s his future bride or she’s history.
So the parents have a large amount of input in deciding who gets through the initial vetting. Also, there is pressure to make a decision. One is not allowed to take the time it takes to get to know someone, but has to decide on a deadline.
In Muslim families, one-on-one meeting is generally out. So the couple get together along with their parents or in more liberal families with a chaperone. Try meeting your future wife for the only time before your wedding decision in front of both your parents and then try striking up a conversation with her.
People think that the do-it-yourself marriages (“love marriages”) in the West rely on superficial characteristics like physical beauty. Here’s the ad placed by Vinay’s parents:
Punjabi parents desire beautiful, professional, never married, US raised girl for handsome son, 34, 5’10”/150, fair, slim, athletic, engineer/MBA, consultant in DC area. Enjoys travel, sports, music. Please reply …
When parents go looking for a spouse for their child, they consider beauty, ethnicity, religion, education, social/financial status and even horoscopes. Which of these criteria are superficial? There are times when a guy’s mom would reject girls because of the smallest “defects” in physical appearance. Or because of the girl being a bit older than the guy (even by a few months).
Ethnicity and religion are very important factors that most parents don’t overlook for arranged marriages. I know a number of guys whose families insisted that they had to marry another Pathan (an ethnic group in NWFP, Pakistan and in Afghanistan) even though these guys and their families had otherwise completely assimilated in Lahore or Karachi for hundreds of years. No one in their families spoke Pashto or Dari, the languages that Pathans/Pashtuns speak. Still their families would not think of marrying someone outside their definition of the tribes that comprise the Pathans.
Imagine how many parents in the US are comfortable with their children marrying someone of another race. Now think what would happen if these parents could decide who could or could not marry their kid. The result would definitely be far less miscegenation. And that’s what happens in societies with arranged marriages.
In the end, the discussion of arranged and love marriages comes down to which is better. Obviously, the one that leads to more successful marriages. Proponents of arranged marriage claim that it is more successful, but their definition of success focusses on divorce rates.
It [arranged marriage] works better than Americans’ impulsive love marriages, which so often split apart. “We have less divorce,” Vibha’s mother points out. “That’s what results tell us.”
But are divorce rates really a measure of successful marriage? Do all the couples that don’t get divorced stay happy with each other? The prevalence of divorce in a society depends on a lot of factors including the stigma of divorce.
In fact, the advantages and drawbacks of arranged marriages can’t be so easily appraised. The incidence of divorce among Indian-born Americans is dramatically lower than among Americans generally, but that partly reflects the continuing stigma of divorce. Even as the divorce rate among Indian Americans appears to be increasing, the topic is rarely discussed. […]Divorce reflects poorly on an Indian family, and some proportion of arranged marriages endure not because they are successful or rewarding, but because leaving them would bring such shame.
In addition, the concept of a woman living independently is foreign to most people in South Asian culture. Also, a majority of women don’t work in Pakistan and hence find it difficult to have enough money to support themselves without getting married or after getting divorced.
And many endure because the definition of success differs from Western ideas. Traditional Indians don’t expect a partner to be that improbable combination of soul mate/confidante/red-hot lover/best friend. “The husband-wife bond is one of reliability and dependability and complementary family roles — raising children, caring for elders,” explains Karen Leonard, author of The South Asian Americans and a University of California-Irvine anthropologist. “They may communicate very little in intimate ways, and it’s still a good marriage.”
Hence, they are married as strangers and stay strangers all their lives.
Arranged marriages are the norm in Pakistan and if its proponents are right, then marriages should be very successful there in general. In terms of divorce rates, they are but then how to explain this:
Estimates of the percentage of women who experience domestic violence in Pakistan range from 70 to upwards of 90 percent.
A lot of people nowadays think that arranged marriages are somehow tied to Islam or Muslims. In fact, arranged marriages are common in a lot of societies in Africa and Asia. They are the norm in India and Japan among other countries.
What is the position of Islam on the topic of arranged marriage? As I mentioned in my post about forced marriage in Islam, traditional and conservative scholars require the approval of the bride’s guardian for her marriage (a position I disagree with). In addition, conservatives are wary of any kind of mixing of the sexes socially. Therefore, for women, there is not much of a practical way out of this dilemma. Some modern scholars however disagree and allow a couple to get married without parental involvement. They still disagree with dating, but meeting of the couple for the purpose of making a decision about marriage is allowed. So, the marriage would tend to be like the “semi-arranged marriage.”
A final question to anyone who favors arranged marriage and specially those who don’t want the couple to get to know each other before marriage: What do you think about having sex with a stranger to whom you are married? Or do you think a couple like that should wait until they know each other better?
also, eyedealist and others, i repect you all , and care for you, and that’s why i’m writing this about arranged marriages, and see it for what it is, otherwise suffer the consequences. i also used to hink dating is mostly sex, and my folks can find me the right guy, but after seeing my cousins who’re now 30 and beyond, and how they cannot find someone via their folks, and also after i talked to a wise person, and he told me that i might also be one of them one day, i decided to open myself up, and date too. i think the best system is kids being able to date once they’re either 18 or in college, and their folks can also introduce them to diferent people, but no strings attached. limiting yourself is never good. before, i thought there’s something wrong with me, and that’s why i couldn’t find the right indian man. but after analysing this aranged marriage system, and seeing how the indian family model really is, i realized it’s not just b/c of me, but because this system is so cntrollng and limiting for us all, and i also realized it IS possible to find a good, sincere, and cating person if you expand your options. thus, i’m gonna find a sri lankan man, and who knows what results i’ll get, but it might be better than being stuck with an indian arranged marriage, where love may or may not for. what’s wrong with what i’m doing? i’m only tryig to educate others on this system, and if at least one person reads my posts and understands it well, then i’ve done my job well, and hopefully, others will also follow. perosnally this article called marriage at first sight disheartened me, especially for the congressional aide and optomotrist girls, who cannot find the right one b/c of their folks, and that’s why i encourage them to go for sihalese men, for if an indian man cannot think for himself, be on his own two feet, but a man from another culture can, then you should go for it. sihalese people don’t have arraged marriages or the caste system anymore and they also have low divorce, and that’s why i’m gonna marry with one. if an indian man cannot offer me much, why can’t i marry a foreigner like a sihalese-sri lankan man?
Your post states;
” “And many endure because the definition of success differs from Western ideas. Traditional Indians don’t expect a partner to be that improbable combination of soul mate/confidante/red-hot lover/best friend. “The husband-wife bond is one of reliability and dependability and complementary family roles – raising children, caring for elders,” explains Karen Leonard, author of The South Asian Americans and a University of California-Irvine anthropologist. “They may communicate very little in intimate ways, and it’s still a good marriage.”
Hence, they are married as strangers and stay strangers all their lives.”
I just want to point out that you may have interpreted that statement wrong. First of all, this passage only applies to Traditional Indians, not any of the other cultures or races which practice arranged marriage. Your statement of arranged marriage partners staying strangers all their lives is nothing more than a general assumption.
Secondly, the fact that the Traditional Indians don’t expect their partner to be all that is listen above implies that this belief is actually imposed by their culture and not by arranged marriage. There are many arranged marriages, and in fact I personally know one, where the couple work hard at both being parents and being intimate, eventually developing affection, if maybe not love, for each other.
That is all, thank you.
I am white European and have married an Indian guy raised in the US. Marrying me he went against his parents and traditions. The consequences have been disastrous. His family has treated me like a was a piece of ….for years. Now I have decided that not dealing with them is better than being constantly mistreated. We are a happy couple and got together because we love each-other. The more I have found out about the hypocrisy of the Indian culture, the more I got disgusted. They have very little feeling and they only care about their money. They feel superior to any other race and are so close minded it makes me sick. I had it with their arrogance and ways of life. The less I am involved with them the happier I am. Anyone who got into a similar situation, I am sure will agree!! Good luck to all mixed couples, Indian plus any other race…you got lot to face from the Indian side…!
paola, i’m so sorry about your case, and i hope that you find the one who really loves you. everyone keeps telling me that it’s me, and that i’m wrong in going outside for my marriage, but can you honestly understand what i’m going through? do you think i’m bad for wanting to marry a sri lankan? i want the one who’ll be my friend, companion, and trusting partner for life, and i hope to get that. was your guy HIndu like me? i’m just curious that’s all. what do you think of my going to look for a sri lankan man? do you know how sad i feel, from your own experience with indian men? i’ve ben to europe, and it’s very nice. how are european men compared to indian men? do they act like gentleman? what european country are you from? i went to england, italy, france, germany, switzerland, holland, belgium, vatican state. just curious. thanks.
Shef,
I am still married with the Indian guy…and the marriage has lasted so far over fifteen years !! He is a wonderful person, loving, caring, responsible. But he had to go totally against his family in order to stay with me. He refused to have an arranged marriage. He wanted to be freed of having to marry someone of his same race and/or parent’s choice. Although many people will say that there is no pressure, I have seen so many cases where Indian girls and boys, not to displease their parents, will accept an arranged marriage. And if they go against the current, they are cut out of the Indian community. We tried to be friends with other Indian couples, but in spite of many efforts, they see us the “mixed couple”, and many are ashemed to be our friend. And there is also all that complicated “casta” system to put into the picture…! I am from a well-off highly educated background family, yet I am not Indian and my in-laws consider me and my relatives worst that a bad disease!! But I learned not to get hurt anymore so I no longer care. What counts for me is what I have: a husbund I adore, sweet and open minded. We have a bright, handsome son and we are very proud of him! I strongly believe you need to follow your heart. Only when you feel so strongly tied to someone, that you can share the most intimate and deep emotions, that you are ready to give up everything for that person, you have found the real meaning of life. What is a life without love? Shef, fly free – be happy. Is not the shade of the skin, the religion, the culture that can guarantee anything. Is what is behind, in each of us, the soul, the spirit, the good.
And regarding Europen men, well they come in all types. One thing for sure, their families will most likely treat you with respect. And if you look for “romance” (which is fun!) southern guys like Spanish and Italian are the best! By the way I am from Switzerland.
paola, sorry, i guess i misread your post and thought you broke up with him. i’m happy you’re with him, and that you’ve a beautiful son. your country, switzerland, was lovely. swiss guys are also cute, a lot of them. maybe if i don’t find a sri lankan, i can find a swiss man? you think i’ve a chance with a swiss man? i want to go there again. i’m sorry you’d this to go through, but that’s how indians and many others are. i know of a jewish guy who maried a catholic girl, and they disowned him too. thus, it’s not just indians, so i don’t want you to think it’s just indians who’re like that. but you know something, i still think it’s easier for an indian family to accept their daughter marrying a non-indian, since in our hindu custom, the son passes down his lineage via his last name, and he’s still the head of his family, not the girl, who the folks just give away, so i think it’s easier for an indian girl as compared to an idnian guy to bring home a non-indian, don’t you think? think it like this-like with lions, the male lion has the whole pride backed up after him, not the lioness, who has the role of hunting and caring for the cubs, so there’s more pressure on the lion to keep the pride intact. or with wolves, where the alpa male has his whole pack geared for a fight if another attacks him, where as the alpha female doesn’t since she’s not the leader of the pack. same with us indians. when i marry an indian man, my husband will only marry me, for the most part, since in our system, it’s the guy who takes the girl away to his house. thus, indian men have more strings attached to them when it comes to marrying out of his culture, when i don’t. the real reason why indian girls are discouraged from marrying outside is becasue the folks want them to stay within their own, and also becasue they feel she’s a “loose girl” if she has a boyfriend. it’s sexist, but i’m not following it, especially when indian men don’t have much emotional attachment to offer me when it comes to relationships. also, one last question: how were his parents able to irritate you so constantly, like did you live with them after you married him? in our custom, the wife lives with her man and his family after she weds him. so, did they do that to you because you lived with them? i’m sorry they gave you trouble, for nobody deserves to be disrespected. i’m not a selfish person. i love to cook clean and take care of my man and his family, but i also want his affection, friendship, and understanding in return. do you think it’s easy for me to leave behind my family and go to another country to find a man of a different culture and settle down? but i must do it, for a caring an honorable 50/50 relationship man is what i want. that’s what i mean by romance. i’m not talking of sexual romance, but of friendship and companionship, since if you don’t have that, you may not be able to communicate with each other enough to make adjustments and compromises needed in marriage.personally, paola, i’m kinda jealous of you european girls, since you’ve men wannting to cater to your needs to make you happy, when in india, the men expect their women to work, cook and clean, and still deal with the abuse of their in-laws, all the while when they as men just work, help around the house whenever they can, iase thek kids, but give us little communication and friendship. who wants that? what a waste of a life. even though there are bad european men, if i’d to compare our men to your’s, i’m still envious, since your avg. swiss is still a prince who respects women, while our men don’t that much. be lucky to have such treasures amongst you.
eyedealist, i remember you saying you’d to decide on a deadline whether or not to accept an arranged marraige, and i’m curious to know what happened. what have you honestly decided to do? plese try to respond, since this is a very important post for you and other indian girls especially to consider, at least i think so. aalso, i feel chemistry, attraction(emotional, not so much physical), and excitement are also very important in a marriage, not just understadning, adjustment, since you can still mostly do that with a roommate. besides, the former attributes are just as important in a marriage, since you are gonna spend the rest of your life with that person, and if there’s little or no romance involved, and little excitement, then there can be a loss in communication, and thus can distance the husband and wife. spouses must be friends, i really believe that. moreover, you say understanding and a healthy relationship involves trust and underatanding, well my question to you is this: how can the undertstanding and trust develop in the marriage if there’s little comunication and freindship between the spouses? understanding and trust does involve a lot of spending time together and doing things together, otherwise making compromises and sacrifices may not develop if there’s a loss in communication. i think it’s total hypocracy in indian culture that compromises are made because of spousal love,. since in our culture, spousal love is usually familial love, keeping things intact for the alliance of the 2 families to stay intact.
i deserve more than that. i deserve eternal commitment, love, and understanding from a man, and if an idnian man cannot give me that, i’ve to go elsewhere. i’m an adult, and i cannot stay with indians and be miserable. it’s hard and emotionlly drainign for me to leave my folks and life in america to find a sri lankan man in australia, but finding a good partner, starting a commited relationship for me is very important, and i must do it, no matter what.
as for not going for indian men, there is that 2% of indian men who’re good, but i’m not gonna wait around for that miracle boy to come, i’m gonna go down under and try my luck. besides, as an educated woman, i don’t think i can connect with a man from india who believes marriage is mostly caring for elders, raising kids, woman serving him, especially the last part. indians say our aranged marriages work because of compromise, well, most of that compromise or at least a good majority of it is made by the owman, who has to serve the man to keep him happy. in fact, in our hindu culture, it says a woman should never be allowed to do a thing on her own, that she should be dependent on a man. well, i don’t want that. i want a man who’ll treat me as apartner, will respect me, and will be exciting and fun to be with, along with understanding and trust. most indian men have nothing to offer me when it comes to this. and as shown by a lot of the posts of other women, indian men do almost everything their mothers tell them to do, and that’s wrong. i don’t mind him loving his folks, but a wife should also be important, since he’s with his own family now. and as for being provider of the family, i don’t think a lot of idnian men do well in that either, not when a lot of them ask for or even accept dowries, when it should be the MAN NOT THE WOMAN who should provide for the family, don’t you think? at least white sri lankan and western men can think for themselves and provide for the woman. also, another reason i think that indian men aren’t right for me and don’t make good providers for women is their desire to live with their folks forever after marriage. it’s one thing if you cannot afford to live on your own, and need financial help, but if it’s for some antiquated tradition, that’s not being responsible, since you’re dependent on your parents financially, living in their house and all, and they can and do often manipulate their sons’ money, as with what happened to my dad and mom when they lived with his folks. what can i have in common with a man like this? i don’t have any problems if a man loves his mother, in fact, if he loves his mother then he’s very likely to respect his wife, but it’s only when men take advantage of that and be a slave to his folks that i draw the line. i love my folks too, but if i’m married, he’s my man, and i cannot do everything they want at the expense of my husband and his integrity. personally, i think a man from india doesn’t want a wife, he wants a slave, if you look at things from this point of view. indian men aren’t for me, for the most part. they hae some good qualities, lie they’re usually not physically abusive to women, and they don’t have vices and they do try to compromise and listen to the woman, but these things come with a heavy price, since they’re a double-edged sword if it’s about being the head of the family, respecting and appreciating what a iwfe does for him, and being her friend. sure you can say i’m exaggerating, and maybe i am to an extent, but still, there is A LOT OF TRUTH in what i’m saying, from experiences of my own, from other’s experiences with indian men, and from general knowledge about the indian culture. thus, while there are good decent indian men, i can guarantee you the more indian men you’ll meet, the more the above description and qualities of them will end up being true. so, for the politically correct crowd, i want to say i’m not saying that these qualities are aplicable to all indian men, but a good majority of them. as proof of this, i can name you the varous posts made by foreign women who cannot find the strength in their indian men to stand up to their folks and fight for love. what does that tell you? usually, where there’s smoke, there’s a fire, and in this case, the smoke is massive, which says a lot. a lot of indian men feel indian women are mostly for being submissive, virgin wives who’re mostly there for cooking and cleaning, while they can screw around with any other non-indian girl, and get pleasure when they themselves as men usually have nothing to offer a woman, i believe. good luck to india and it’s attempts to advance in this world, for it has a LONG, LONG way to go. Unless indians learn to advance with the rest of the world, think for themselves, it’s always gonna be the way it is.
Thank you soooo much. I have to write a paper for one of my classes and this helped me soooo much. Is it true that in Japan, arranged marriage is more like haivng a blind date, since the girls get to choose and stuff? I just wanna know =D
aikuchi, can the people date on their own in japa, or is it like india, where they can’t realy find a person on their own, (most but not all the peple, though things are changing now), like in japan, if you saw a guy or girl you liked can you date them, or you have to wait for your folks to find you somebody? i had a japanese girlfriend, and she said that in japan, they don’t really have arranged marriages anymore, they have it like people can find their own mates, but if they need help finding someone, they can just have their friends or famoly set them up on dates or stuff. is that how it’s mostly like there, what she told me?
Hi
For my religion project for school, im doing it on arranged marriages…would you all answer a question for me?
Do you want to be placed in an arranged marriage?
Would you put you kids in one?
Im a Canadian and i dont know much on the subject and am open to anyones thoughts…
Thanks
zack, when you said that if a marriage relationship is that mostly of two roomates, and that can result in stuff like loss of intamcy, which is important to most people, did you mean loss of intimacy in the sexual sense only? or did you mean loss of intimacy also in the meotional sense, like for example loss in communication of two spouses? i ask you this because intimacy isn’t only sexual, you can have emotional intimacy as well.
I think Arranged Marriages rule. The women obey the man and thats exactly the way it should be. Sex is just a bodily function and a man needs a virgin bride to deflower.
I think in the east arranged marriages last for the same reason they work in the first place. Which is FORCE… Even in so called concents, mostly either the bride or the bridegromm are not entirely convinced, but the society culture is so opressive that they can not even in their widest dreams think of raising their lack of interest. Similarly divorce is not in the culture, even when there are problem, they fight it out and continue hanging on. This aspect however is healthy, because as they hang on for some time, life changes and it becomes possible for the partners to reunite. But in my view arranged marriages are a society dogma. My parents are doing this to me, but I have no option, because in India, there isnt dating culture and it is very hard to find a girl in places that I go, since the proportion of working women is quite less. Also of the small proportion, many also have oppressed brought up and are not open for going out and experimenting and finding their own parnter. So I have to resort to parents help to get a girl. But here, if I like a girl and parents dont, they have the tactic of blaming it on the astrologer. If I hate a girl, but they like it they would talk me through and force me into marrying her. God save this country.
ram, i’m so sorry for you, but why don’t you find a woman of another culture to marry, like a sri lankan girl? they usually don’t have arranged marriages anymore, and are more open-minded than indians are. go on the internet at eharmony.com and find a sri lankan girl. i’m a gujarati-hindu-indian girl in america, and i plan on finding and marrying a sinhalese man. even though people will hate me, i need true love, and i must find it. true love for me is friendship, trust understanding, romance and compromise, and in india, you’ll notice that there’s little romance between spouses, and that’s why there’s little intimacy, isn’t that ture? also, since you’re in india, why does everyone there keep saying that it’s changed so much in idnai, and dating is so common there? i went there 3 years ago, and dating wasn’t common at all. is all this exaggerated? also, is it true that most people in india(rich, middle class and poor all included) still live in joint families? they said that once boy and girl marry, they live separately, but i didn’t see that at all. i think most still live with their folsk after marriage. do they? also, what do you think of my marrying a sinhalese man? am i doing the right thing, if i cannot find a suitable partner in indian culture?
ram, are you gujarati hindu like me? just curious, and that’s why i’m asking. what did you mean by the working proportion of women is also very less? most middle class families educate their families now, so how can women not be working? did you mean that most women are educated, but because of social pressures, they’re forced to stay home and take care of their families because of families, etc?
Salaaaam! Long time no see! ok I am now married to a Muslim man and studying Islam fervently. I DESPERATELY need to find a Muslima (lady of course) in a successful arranged marriage who speaks English. I need help understanding this culture and concept. I don’t think I’m allowed to put my email address here, so if you can help me, maybe you can contact the blog owner (Is it Zack)? and he can give you my email address. Inshallah someone will read this and be able to help. THANKYOU~!
shama, are you muslim yourself? were you married once to a muslim man?
paola, sorry to hear what you have endured, but i have also heard of similar cases with maarrying indians. how did you experience all this abuse from your indian spouse’s family? why do you think indian culture is hypocritical?
To eyedealist: i feel you don’t have any right to criticize shef and her desires to marry non-indians. frankly, after the experiences that many of my indian freinds have endured, i don’t blame her at all for looking elsewhere for love. a marriage involves harmony in emotional aspects too, not just roomate type aspects of paying the bills, caring for elders, etc. i odn’t take the latter lightly, for it needs presence, but so do emotional attachment and attraction. no wonder you can’t decide for yourself if you can love your true man or not. and if i also agree with paola that a lot of indian culture is full of hypocracy, and that many indians don’t have much feeling. lastly, if india is so good, why do they flee to western countries?
i think marriage is whatever two people put into it, regardless of whether it’s arranged or not. however, the only tie breaker between arranged and love marriages is that in love marriages, since you’ve the freedom to find your own spouse and time to get to knwo him/her, you’ve more options rather than being limited in arranged marriages. also, i think indians need to put a sock in it when they say love marriages are mostly about sex, infatuation, and materialistic aspects. knowing how indians are, i think they’re very hypocritical to say that, since they, like paola and others have said, have a very limited mindset and are greediest at times for money, wealth, and power.
Guys, I don’t want any Indian-bashing here please.
zack, i want to ask you something: did you mean that there could be a loss in intimacy in arranged marriages meaning just physical intimacy, or there could be loss in emotional intimacy as well? also, maybe you didn’t read the cultural definition of arranged marriages there. they said traditional indians don’t expect each other to be best friends/lover, etc., but that’s there culture, not arranged marriage, is it? also, whjat about other societes that have arrnaged marriages, and they can try to learn to develop intimacy after marriage? isn’t what you said a generalization?
lastly, zack: i know indian bashing isn’t good, but idealist kinda hurt my feelings too, with her insensitivity
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On one hand, some aspects of arranged marriages could be positive but only so long as the choice is totally up to both of the people who might marry and not at all up to those who tried to bring them together. (I’m thinking about how we can so easily be mislead by people we meet on our own into thinking they are good for us, or that they are even serious at all about us, when they are not). But no matter how careful people are, I don’t see how family members, or any other outsider for that matter, can be totally objective about such a completely personal matter involving two people who must share their lives together at such an intimate level. Although the couple themselves can make mistakes when left to their own decision making, at least they may have a better chance of getting to know each other before making that final commitment. No one on the outside can know what is best for them: I’m thinking also of how we can so easily be put on the wrong track or make terrable mistakes when being influenced even by mere advice from others concerning relationships or other personal matters.
I know a situation where an Asian man’s parents pressured him for some time to marry a girl they got along with well, even though, after living with this girl and spending time with her, the man found her to be abusive and controlling in a relationship, and he found he could not love her romantically. By pressuring him endlessly to marry this girl, and following him everywhere to try to ensure he didn’t meet anyone else, a situation occurred in which the guy was forcibly separated from the woman he truly loves, who also loves him, and forced to spend his life with the girl who treats him so badly that he seldom can stay in the same city as her. Although this is not an arranged marriage in the traditional sense of the word, it is still a marriage he was forced into by his parents and against his wishes. It has been more difficult for him to break away from it because his culture says that to go against what his parents want would be very shaming.
sheva, thank you. what you said is precisely what i mean. that’s why i don’t want an arranged marriage, or even an indian man, for that matter. i’m not able to mentally jibe with them. i’m so into outdoors stuff, like taking long walks in nature, going to the beach, etc., and i’m also into talking, being affectionate with a man, and into romance, and companionship with a guy, but most of our men are so not into that stuff. i agree that making sacrifices in marriage and dependibility is very, very, very important, but so is companionship, romance, and emotional compatibility. i hate it when indian parents keep bothering us about divorce rates, and lack of intimacy as not a big deal. it’s a total lie. in my culture, any girl who’s not married at 26, 27 is an old maid, and will be pressured to get married fast. since i’m 22 now, and don’t have anybody, so that means, in 4 years, it’s gonna be VERY dificult to find a great guy, since number one, you’re limited by whom your parents want, and number two, people are rushed into getting married on a deadline, and so there’s too much pressure, which often prevents you from getting to know that person well before you settle down. also, as educated girl raised outside of india, it’s hard for some of us to find much in common with our men, since they often want a second mother to care for them, and don’t want real communication and partnership between spouses. thus, along with how indian men are, i don’t want to marry one. this breaks my heart, but i must do it. My folks are gonna freak when i bring home a sri lankan, but i’m gonna fight for it.
hi..i want to tell you guys my story about my “arranged marriage” i don’t really consider my marriage as an arranged marriage because i was told since i was 13 years old who i was going to marry..and i had no choice but to except it.
i knew of him but never actually spoke to him before our wedding. he was in pakistan and i was here in the US. one year after i had graduated highschool (age 19) my parents decided it was time for me to get married. yes, i was scared and confused when i found out that suddenly was i gonna get married at the age of 19 (still a child)
to sort of a stanger.
i was so embarassed to tell my co-wokers and friends about me getting married to someone i hadn’t even talked to. so i told them that i was leaving to visit family back home for 2 and half months. some of my friends and co-workers still don’t know that i’m married. i just tell everyone that i have a boyfriend in paksitan.
anyways… i just want to say that i have never been happier!! i love my new husband. he is the most sweetest, caring, loving person i have ever met. it’s too bad that he is not with me at this time because he’s visa is still not approved and it’s been almost a year since i haven’t seen him.
he makes me feel like i’m the most beautiful girl in the world. not only does he have a beautiful face but also a beautiful heart. i really really miss him and hope to see him soon:)
so from my point of view, i think arranged marriages are great! it makes life a little bit more interesting:) im happy, my husband is happy, and best of all our parents are happy.
I am glad to see this thread still active. I am one of the victims of arranged marriages. Although I don’t really want to see myself that way. I can relate to many of the stories I have read here, and it is painful to be able to see both sides of the coin. Especially when it hurts me on such a deep emotional level.
I have been involved with a Sudanese man for nearly 3 years. The more I read, the more I realize I am not alone in my story. there are mnay people, men and women, out there, who share my experience. How do people manage? am talking about people who are involved with people who are involved with or committed to an arranged marriage. By best friend of the last 3 years, Anis, is getting married in two days to his cousin. He only told me 4 months ago, that he was engaged. I went through hell in the last 4 months. I guess he still felt he had a decision to make, but in many ways was really decieving me, and playing a game. I know in his heart, he wanted to be with me, but in reality he would say: love and marriage have nothing to do with each other…or things like marriage kills the true love.
I know his priorities. As a good muslim his priority to please his parents and not let them worry is second only to his praise of allah. But still? Then how can he reconcile his own individual interests with those of his community? He does’nt. He can’t. If he was cut off from his community, he would probably perish in an emotional sense.
He always seemed very devoted and commited to me, which is why I fell in love with him. But he would say things like, even if I reverted to Islam, his parents would still not accept him. It seems that his cousins and uncles, really made all the arrangements. But he has been talking with his fiancee, since before we met.I think the family pressure, his fear of allah, and his commitment to Islam, all pushed him into accepting this as his fate.
Our relationship was rocky. But I always blamed that on this feelign I had. His inability to commit. I always felt it.
Now I am left to pick up the pieces. I should have gotten out a year ago. That was when he started talking about having two wives. That was a big red flag. I do feel used in many ways. I am trying to not feel like a victim, and understand that in some ways we are all victims in the situation. I know his fiancee, really wants out of Sudan. After reading many of the posts, it clarified in my mind, a bit, about how there is a bit of a familial conspiracy of getting people out of these warn-torn countries in crisis.
But if I had known in the beginning I would never have dedicated so much time and investment into a relationship that was obviously going nowhere fast.
I just wonder how successful their relationship will be, if I remain in his heart? Or is this not difficult for a man to reconcile? Before he got onto the plane, he told me he will always love me, and never love anyone like me ever. Perhaps he is just trying to make me feel better?
Anyways it is sad, and still rather shocking for all the people who knew us a couple.
hi everyone. I have an upcoming project for my global history class. I was wondering if any of you would be willing to share some statistics with me regarding divorce rate in arranged marriages versus marriages that are not arranged, average ages of the girls and boys, etc. ANY type of quick info that I could sahre with my class would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
I think arranged marriages are bad women should chose who have to spend the rest thier lkives togther.
I’ve just finished reading over your article and found it very interesting. Currently I am in grade 9 LA, and part of our final exam is an inquiry project. I chose to research the question ‘Should arranged marriages be a respected tradition in Canada?’. I thought your website had great information, which I strongly benefited from. However, I still have a few unanswered questions I was hoping you could answer for me. It would be very much appreciated.
1) How common are arranged marriages right now, and in which parts of the world?
2) Do arranged marriages conflict with any other religions? (I.e. Against women’s rights because women are sometimes abused)
3) What religions support/take part in arranged marriages?
To contact me, you can e-mail pinkswirls@rome.com. Your answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!
Megan
hey you forgot one reason why arranged marriages “work” in india: the indian woman is at the husband’s feet and is also at his mother’s feet, sicne they spend a lot(or even sometimes all) of their lives living with the husband and his parents after marriage. is that a marriage, or like a living arrangement made between two people in a house full of others? can you always really get to knwo someone when people are watching you? that’s one thing you forgot about in idnain marriages. and i’ve heard of examples of indian woman running away from bad in-laws from that. thus, this is also a big factor in deciding why arranged marriages have low divorce rates: you get to live as roomates, not as man and wife, with in-laws always around you. believe me, men from idnia don’t want a wife, they want a slave. it benefits the man, but at the woman’s expense.
Hello there! I am 14 years old, and Sri Lankan, and I was born and still living in Canada. I’ve seen a lot of arranged marriages so far, and a couple of rare love marriages too. This is what I know of personal Sri Lankan arranged marriages:
From reading these comments, I am happy to learn new things about arranged marriages in India and how other people feel about. Though one thing that slightly gets me angry is that Indian girls think that Sri Lankan guys will fight for you, or aren’t so into arranged marriages etc. TRUST ME, I’ve visited Sri Lanka and learned from much people, most sri lankan guys aren’t like this. They may like you but usually will always go with their parents wishes for choosing a bride.
Luckily my cousin fell in love with a boy who was from the same village and her parents accepted. See some families prefer to have their children married to someone who came from the same village. Example. Karavathee (spelled it wrong I think :P) is a village my mother is from, so an arranged marriage was taken place with someone who lived in that exact same village. Also this leads sometimes to incest (EWW), since far related cousins may marry etc. This still works in Canada. If a boy’s parents is from Karavathee then probably those parents will either look for a girl from the same village here or arrange a marriage in sri lanka to bring the girl here to canada. Of course this type of wedding doesn’t always happen, but is common to me.
Also Sri Lankans can actually have a say (well most can) on whether they like the bride or groom. If the parents arrange for a bride, and the son does not like her, then they will look for one that the son prefers.
Love marriages are acceptable but rare, since most families have an ‘honour’ to uphold.
And what is my future? Who knows, I’ve never talked with my parents about this and only time will tell……
Hope to see more interesting comments 😀
nirthikaa, if what you say of sri lankian guys is true, then how come i’ve seen quite a few ari lankan guys marry women of their choice? are you from the city or village? i’m not saying arranged marriages aren’t present, but i think they’re not the norm anymore, for the most part.
Shef, I am not saying that all sri lankan guys are like this. If the girl fits the family standards then they will accept her.
I am born in Canada but I come from a village. Actually most people in Sri Lanka come from a village, even if they live in the cities now.
Also the guy might actually marry a girl that his family doesn’t accept. I guess I was way to rash in writing the comment before.
My friend just told me that her cousin married a chinese girl. She also said that no one in her family accepted him at all, and everyone thinks the girl is ‘mean’. Shef, I am not saying that all sri lankan guys are like this. If the girl fits the family standards then they will accept her.
I am born in Canada but I come from a village. Actually most people in Sri Lanka come from a village, even if they live in the cities now.
Also the guy might actually marry a girl that his family doesn’t accept. I guess I was way to rash in writing the comment before.
My friend just told me that her cousin married a chinese girl. She also said that no one in her family accepted him at all, and everyone thinks the girl is ‘mean’. <— she said a bad word for that so I am just saying it in a nicer term.
Shef are you tamil? Just wanted to know :).
Well for the most parts, arranged marriages arent as strict but they still happen. The parents will search everywhere for a suitable bride or groom (traits include: village, family’s reputation, education, home skills such as cooking etc.) and then show their kid. If their son/daughter likes the person and the person likes them back then it becomes a marriage. If not then the parents search for another person. So arranged marriages are looser, as in now the people can meet their future wife or husband and see if they like them.
One question I have shef is that you told me that the sri lankan guys got to marry people of their choice. Were the girls sri lankan or a different culture?
nirthikaa, i’m sorry if i offended you. it’s just that i know of a lot of sinhalese people who said that they try to marry within their own, but they can find their own spouse and date once they’re around 18. these are mostly people from the cities and subarbs. they’re all honest people, and so they wouldn’t lie to me. now, i know that they may have come from bvillages, but they’ve been living in coties for ceades so they’d know. i’m not doubting you, just telling you of sinhalese men and womani know of. moreover, i read up on sinhalese culture in sri lanka, and they said that arranged marriages happen mostly in villages, or in the cities, the guy and girl might just be introduced to each other, and tkat their time to get married, but no time limit usually on when to get married. i love the sri lankan people. they’re usually nice people, and it’d be an honor for me to marry a sinhalese man. are you trying to discourage me to marry a sinhalese man? i wouldn’t go to sri lanka to find one, probably australia or london. what’s wrong in that. there are good indian men, but they’re already taken in western countries, thuis leaving girls like me without much brighter chances for a partner, or they get caught up in money issues and all, so they cannot offer some of us indian girls the love and long-term commitment we need. that’s why me and some of my other indian girls are going for sinhalese men, or white men. moreover, at least in your sri lankan culture, usually, after guy and girl marry, they get their own house/flat, not physicaly with the parents. of the indian men living in america, around half of them still want their folks living with them and their wives permenently after marriage. now, there are good qualities in indian men, like they’re not usually physically abuse, they respect their parents, they’re educated, and they work hard financially. however, when it comes to long-term commitments and lvoe, it starts to create a rift between us. they’d rather have a girl like to do things mostly their way, and they don’t offer much emotional commitment. they’re also not as romantic nor as caring towards women as i want men to be. thus, i can conclude that i get along well with indian guys in terms of dancing, having klunchm, studies, etc., and they’re good for short term fun, but not for long-term relationships. are you sri lankan-tamil? as for your last question, “One question I have shef is that you told me that the sri lankan guys got to marry people of their choice. Were the girls sri lankan or a different culture?” the girls were indian. why?
Oh shef you didn’t offend me at all. I was just asking :D.
I guess I never heard of it because the guys you are talking about is sinhalese.
Anyways I asked if the girls were a different culture because some parents won’t mind if their kid marries someone that is close to their religion like indian, pakistan etc.
I didn’t know some of the stuff you said before, so it’s nice that I learned something new.
Also I am not discouraging you from marrying sri lankans, i just wanted to input my view on them. Sorry if it might have gone too far. 🙁
nirthika, are you tamil? i’m gujarati-hindu indian. what did you mean by “I guess I never heard of it because the guys you are talking about is sinhalese?” i don’t take offense, so don’t worry. no apologies. it’s just that you kinda scared me, knowing what i’ve been through with indian guys. that’s okay. anyway, this is what these sinhalese people told me, and they’re not dishonest people, so i believe me. please let me know? thanks:)
nirthikaa, let me ask you somrthing: did you know that growing numbers of indian girls in the UK and other western countires are going with sinhalese-sri lankan men? this is because of the relative shortage of indian men, as well as the fact that quite often, they’ve been disappointed in relationships with indian men. if i cannot find a sinhalese guy, i’ll go for a white guy. my uncle himaelf said that we have to stop indian girls in the UK from marrying whites and sinhalese men, for “if we don’t do anything now, then in 20 or 30 years, the indian culture may die out, and indian men will have a shortage of indian mates to choose from.” he saw the biggest threat coming from sinhalese and white british men, and indian girls in the UK go for them partly because they appreciate the fact that their non-indian spouses treat them more as partners in a marriage and give them more attention and aren’t too tied around their mother’s apron strings. even though the relative number of indian girls marrying white and sinhalese men is still small now, (at least in america), it’s growing, as more and more indian girls are marrying out. please let me know what you think of all this. thanks. 🙂
Yeah I’m Tamil. See I hardly know anyone who is sinhalese, so I didn’t know that they wouldn’t mind marrying indian girls etc. Also about the indian girls marrying out, I personally don’t mind. Maybe parents and elders do not understand how sinhalese and white people treat their spouses differently. Also I feel it would be ok as long as if the indian girl and white/sinhalese boy have a kid, that they at least try to teach their children their religion. I totally sound confusing now….:D It’s fun talking with you shef!!
nirthikaa, you sound very intelligent, not confusing at all. it’s fun to talk to you too. if you want to know about indian girls marrying out, there are two articles in these two websites that said that indian girls in america
are marrying out, and one said that it has reached a point in america where around 50% of indian girls raised in ameirca in certain areas are marrying out. hey, maybe my uncle was right, maybe in 40 years, the indians really might become servants and the british, americas, sinhalese and other non-indians take over. lol.:) this is the first website i think you should read: http://www.vivaaha.org/ht_mixed_marriage1.htm
the second one is http://indiafamily.net/talk/messages/12485/12933.html?1131823166
the second one is where indian peoples talk to each other, and have input on arranged marriages, money, etc. and somewhere in one of the topics, it said 50% of indian girls married out, and though i don’t remember the exact one, if you navigate through the topics, you’ll find it. these things are a must-read.
I just wanted to say something about this.From my experience I have seen arranged marriages work better than dating and that stuff.Because of dating young boys and girls are led astray in western culture.Also many women are having sex at an early age because of dating and all that stuff.They become pregnant before marriage and thus end up as failures.
Arranged marriage helps young people to make right decision and thus lead good honest lives.
Remember parents only think of the good of their children. They only want the best for their children.It is always advisable for children to listen to their parents so that Indian society will not become spoilt like Western society.
I am one of the women interviewed for the Washington Post article quoted in the original blog. I’ve skimmed over most comments and have to put in my 2 cents. I am 33 years old and have learned one thing: there is no right way to get married. Arranged vs. Nonarranged? Meeting two times vs. dating 10 years? Who is to say??? Either will work if one believes firmly in the institution alone. The divorce rates are lower in India not because the marriages are arranged but because it is not a litiginous society like the west.In addition women are not as educated as the they are in the west. The marital problems are all the same in every culture. If divorce in India were as easy and accepted as in the west, and the women were as educated as the women in the west, then the rates would be the same or even higher.
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yes well i think that it is unaxceptable..i think love comes naturally you cant force paople to marry. you bloody bastards shouldnt make them marry like that you fk*** pigs!!!
My family is very liberal about marriage and I was brought up that way, but wisening up along the way I figured as a female it’s much safer for my parents to determine who’s a good match for me. I see it in a practical way:
1. Decision to live “ever after” with a stranger (and by this I mean non-mahram) is a grave responsibility. I don’t think based on all my nary a 21 years of life, I have the wisdom to decide that.
2. My parents having been in a marriage for nearly 2 decades, would know what the nitty gritty stuff it takes to make it work AND they (should) know me better than anyone else, seeing that they gave birth to me and brought me up (all these years).
This was my disposition. What actually happened is that they did a hands-free and it was up to me to find someone (despite I told them to look for someone). I met my husband and I had the complete liberty to go out and see him and determine compatibility and (financial) capability.
So without my parents’ protection/security, I had to manage on my own, which I think I did pretty well considering I had no restraint. I got to know him over a period of 5 weeks (a few encounters and sampling intellectual discourse) and made it clear that if he feels for more from me, the next step is nikah (then I dismissed all communication). The next thing I knew my father told me he came to ask for my hand.
We are now married almost 2 years and we have a 6 month old daughter 🙂
I know of 2-3 cases where in an arranged marriage the girl found out the guy is impotent. Funny thing is, the guys parents usually know about it but foist the guy on her, and assume she will stick with him due to the societal stigma of having a divorce.. our parents agree arranged marriage is a gamble..u need a lot of luck to actually chance on someone u can tolerate.
All of my aunts and uncles were arranged (I have a lot!) and they are all still happily married. We have exactly one love marriage in my parent’s generation (my mom’s cousin) and she is divorced because of an affair on the part of the husband (my ex-uncle). Ironically, he chased her for about 5 years in India before she finally agreed to marry him. They did date and all that, even lived together for a couple years before getting married. But in the end he crapped out on her. The only single aunts or uncles that I have are because their husbands or wives have passed away. Personally, I don’t mind arranged marriages although I am not going to do it. If anyone else wants to, by all means. Some people on this thread are making it sound as if the kids have absolutely no say in who their parents choose for them, but that’s not true at all. Nowadays, parents have become a lot more open-minded and will let their children approve or disapprove of the person.
Also, it’s not like ALL women lose all their independence. All the Indian moms that I know are some of the most independent women I know. They all have jobs, they hang out with their friends, etc. Obviously, that’s not to say that ALL arranged moms have their independence, but plenty still do.
My parents aren’t going to arrange me. They told me that I get to choose my own man, he just has to meet my parent’s approval, hehe. He can be of a different race, religion, etc. Right now, I am dating a white boy, they have met him, and he’s even stayed over at my house, and met some of my extended family. Ha, I don’t think they think I’ll marry him, but if I do, they will support me 100%. Btw, my generation has already started with the interracial marriages in my family.
Maybe I just lucked out and come from a damn good family…
hi, i’m a british sri lankan man married to an idnian girl raised in england, and by marrying me, we both went through a huge nightmare. Her family condemned her, and made life a living hell for both of us. I’m an educated sinhalese man from a good family, but because i’m not indian, her family treates me like garbage noww, for six years. I didn’t know much about the indian culture except when i went to england to study as a teen. There, i met a wonderful girl, and we marreid becasue we truly love each other, and share a common culture/religion and values on life in general. I’ve learned a lot of the indian culture, especially on how they pretend to be angelic on the outisde, but are very ruthless, and into their status and money on the inside, and are so stubborn and close-.minded that it makes me wanna puke. after beign humilated by her folsk, i’ve decided that not dealign with them is much better. Not all indians are like this, but as the number of indian people you meet increases, the more and mroe this will be true, guaranteed. My advice for everyone: i think it’s better not to get involved with an indain person, for these situations keep on happening over and over, so it’s not worth it. I love my wife, and couldn’t ask for someone better, but lucky for me she fought for me and all. To someone else, think about it a thousand times before you marry an indian person.
Why do indian people get romantically involved with others if they know they cannot go against their culture and traditions? Why dopn’t they just stick to their old traditions. At least then thwey won’t waste others’ time and break their hearts. They make me sick. Disgusting.
hey my name is Faiza and i am a student currently studying sociology and i needed some help!!! im doing coursework on arranged marriages and if they are still among young muslims, and i was wondering if anyone can just give me their view on arranged marriages and if they are still among young muslims in the 21st century it would be great hlp!!!!!! make sure it is your opinion i dont need any facts ! thanks
this will hlp me get thr grade that i am looking forxxxx